Build my AR15 pistol - legal aspect

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  • josh19

    Member
    Dec 12, 2013
    63
    Hi everyone,

    after waiting for over 5 years, I decided I should go forward with building my own AR15 pistol. I studied previous posting that was very thoroughly explained the legal steps. Wonder if there is any info that is now outdated. I want to share my plan here to make sure I fully understand the legal do's and dont's

    Previous July 2012 posting : https://www.mdshooters.com/showthread.php?p=4422491#post4422491

    How I get my part:

    1. Lower receiver - I will follow Option A to get a brand new bare receiver from a FFL. I need to make sure FFL transfer the receiver, in 4473 form, to me NOT as rifle

    Question: I do not recall in previous 77R application, I was asked if it is transferred as O (for other) or A (for assault weapon). Is that in the form ?

    2. Short barrel upper - Can I order online (from PSA, as below), to get the short barrel upper ? And have it ship directly to my home.

    https://palmettostatearmory.com/psa...ic-shockwave-pistol-kit-black-5165449175.html

    (PSA 10.5" 5.56 NATO 1/7 NITRIDE CLASSIC SHOCKWAVE PISTOL KIT, BLACK - 5165449715)

    3. Brace: I assume it should be no issue to get this online as follow.

    https://dsgarms.com/rifle-accessories-sbt-pdw-01-sb

    (SB Tactical SBPDW AR15 Pistol Brace - 3 Position )

    Question: any comment on the brace I selected ? Is it a good choice ? There are quite a few models including the one that comes with the PSA upper.

    In the July 2012 posting, the member suggest "denial pin" as extra legal precaution to protect ourselves legally. I have no idea what denial pin is, how to install it. Please educate me.

    I felt excited with this AR15 pistol project but feel very jittery of the legal pitfall of building/owning one. I appreciate your advise.

    Much appreciated, Josh
     

    danb

    dont be a dumbass
    Feb 24, 2013
    22,704
    google is your friend, I am not.
    I would not worry too much about #1. FFL will handle the paperwork. Yes, 4473 and 77r and 7 day wait.

    2- yep. Although some will say PSA is crap, and others will say fvck PSA because they've screwed over Maryland. Yet others will say just built your own upper, its not hard. None of those people are wrong, necessarily. I know some people who have built pistols with that kit and its crap.

    If you ever plan to suppress this puppy, be mindful of barrel length. Some suppressors are not rated for a 10.5" 556 barrel.

    3- yes, I have this its great.

    4- denial pin. I dare you do google it. In privacy mode. Now that thats out of the way, the pin goes on to prevent your short barrel upper from being put on on a rifle. which would convert your rifle to an illegal unregistered SBR. I think that whether you decide to do this or not depends on your level of Battered Gun Owner Syndrome. My guess is a lot of people do the kind of denial pin you find in a google search, not too many people put one on their guns.
     

    Ammo Jon

    Ultimate Member
    Mar 3, 2008
    20,773
    https://www.classicfirearms.com/ar-pistol-3-position-adjustable-stabilizing-brace/

    I’ve heard enough about PSA that I wouldn’t go that route. Have you considered the Ruger AR pistol? You should calculate how much it will cost to put it together from various parts vs just buying the whole thing complete.

    A beautiful day is when BGOS disappears and you know you’re following the law and there’s nothing they can do.
     

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    SkiPatrolDude

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Oct 24, 2017
    3,331
    Timonium-Lutherville
    If you want to spend a few extra bones on the upper, check out the BCM M2 complete uppers. They're awesome and have their new beefed-up upper receiver. I'd mate an 11.5 or 12.5 inch upper to an Aero M4E1 lower and call it a day! Could prob do the complete pistol plus good trigger for around $1000 (not including optics).

    To the PSA haters - personal feelings on PSA aside, I've purchased two HBAR 18inch "Premium" PSA complete uppers, with the CHF FN barrel for a friends rifle and one for myself and have nothing but praise. Everything was aligned properly and torqued to spec. But for the noobs out there, it is wise to look over everything on the complete PSA stuff before running hard.

    My personal AR pistol is a Daniel Defense M4V7p. Absolutely love it, but if I knew what I know now, you can definitely save a good $800-$1000 on the same quality if you build your own or even just build the lower and buy a complete upper.

    As far as barrel length - I would consider an 11.5 or even a 12.5 if you aren't running dedicated suppressed. 11.5 will keep your projectile in the generally accepted "decent terminal ballistics" for longer than a 10.3 or 10.5 which will lose steam pretty quick.
     

    3paul10

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Mar 6, 2012
    4,879
    Western Maryland

    E.Shell

    Ultimate Member
    Feb 5, 2007
    10,242
    Mid-Merlind
    ...4- denial pin. I dare you do google it. In privacy mode. Now that thats out of the way, the pin goes on to prevent your short barrel upper from being put on on a rifle. which would convert your rifle to an illegal unregistered SBR. I think that whether you decide to do this or not depends on your level of Battered Gun Owner Syndrome. My guess is a lot of people do the kind of denial pin you find in a google search, not too many people put one on their guns.
    I am totally unfamiliar with this. Where does the (firearms version) 'denial pin' go? Thank you.
     

    danb

    dont be a dumbass
    Feb 24, 2013
    22,704
    google is your friend, I am not.
    I am totally unfamiliar with this. Where does the (firearms version) 'denial pin' go? Thank you.


    there are many threads on this...


    There are so many ways you could do this it's silly. All it does is prevents the upper from fitting on a standard lower. What you do is attach a small metal pin to the bottom of the reciever upper with a corresponding hole in the lower. It will fit a slightly oversize hole in the receiver. Right above the selector is a reasonably thick area area to do this. Remember, this is NOT required, but it does end any arguments about whether the parts interchange. This is the exact opposite of constructive intent, by doing this you show intent to prevent it from happening, hard to prosecute for constructive intent when it's clear that your intent was to prevent the act from happening... or at least that's the theory.

    Mark
     

    josh19

    Member
    Dec 12, 2013
    63
    Many many thanks for the valuable response. That gave me several options to consider now - getting a name brand ruger AR15 pistol is definitely very attractive.

    I think I will just build one PSA according to my plan, and one ready-to-use Ruger. Now the fun part the both agonizing and fun journey of endless reviews of the Ruger model, and also the 9mm pistol as well.

    Oh, one question I just need to confirm again. So I can order the PSA "AR-15 Pistol Upper Receiver 11.5" 5.56" online and ship to my home, right ? I should get the new bare receiver first then order the PSA upper. (I am just quite concerned with the short barrel upper in regard to to constructive possession).

    I already have 2 Kel tec sub 2000 so 9mm is low priority at this point. I love the kel tec, especially the interchangeable mag with my glock. Only thing I do not like is the cheap material. I hope Kel tec will make a high end metal based sub 2000.

    Again, really appreciate for the comments. I learned so much



    Josh:)
     

    outrider58

    Eats Bacon Raw
    MDS Supporter
    Jul 29, 2014
    49,810
    Many many thanks for the valuable response. That gave me several options to consider now - getting a name brand ruger AR15 pistol is definitely very attractive.

    I think I will just build one PSA according to my plan, and one ready-to-use Ruger. Now the fun part the both agonizing and fun journey of endless reviews of the Ruger model, and also the 9mm pistol as well.

    Oh, one question I just need to confirm again. So I can order the PSA "AR-15 Pistol Upper Receiver 11.5" 5.56" online and ship to my home, right ? I should get the new bare receiver first then order the PSA upper. (I am just quite concerned with the short barrel upper in regard to to constructive possession).

    I already have 2 Kel tec sub 2000 so 9mm is low priority at this point. I love the kel tec, especially the interchangeable mag with my glock. Only thing I do not like is the cheap material. I hope Kel tec will make a high end metal based sub 2000.

    Again, really appreciate for the comments. I learned so much



    Josh:)
    Whatever helps you sleep at night. I wouldn't worry too much as long as you order both the same day. If the upper comes first, obviously you have no reason to take it out of the house until you have the lower built.
     

    SkiPatrolDude

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Oct 24, 2017
    3,331
    Timonium-Lutherville
    Many many thanks for the valuable response. That

    Oh, one question I just need to confirm again. So I can order the PSA "AR-15 Pistol Upper Receiver 11.5" 5.56" online and ship to my home, right ?



    Josh:)

    Yes. You can order literally any AR15 pattern part except for the lower receiver right to your door.
     

    calicojack

    American Sporting Rifle
    MDS Supporter
    May 29, 2018
    5,348
    Cuba on the Chesapeake
    If you want to spend a few extra bones on the upper, check out the BCM M2 complete uppers. They're awesome and have their new beefed-up upper receiver. I'd mate an 11.5 or 12.5 inch upper to an Aero M4E1 lower and call it a day! Could prob do the complete pistol plus good trigger for around $1000 (not including optics).

    To the PSA haters - personal feelings on PSA aside, I've purchased two HBAR 18inch "Premium" PSA complete uppers, with the CHF FN barrel for a friends rifle and one for myself and have nothing but praise. Everything was aligned properly and torqued to spec. But for the noobs out there, it is wise to look over everything on the complete PSA stuff before running hard.

    My personal AR pistol is a Daniel Defense M4V7p. Absolutely love it, but if I knew what I know now, you can definitely save a good $800-$1000 on the same quality if you build your own or even just build the lower and buy a complete upper.

    As far as barrel length - I would consider an 11.5 or even a 12.5 if you aren't running dedicated suppressed. 11.5 will keep your projectile in the generally accepted "decent terminal ballistics" for longer than a 10.3 or 10.5 which will lose steam pretty quick.

    I don't have a Daniel Defense AR and can't speak for that, but I concur with everything else above. :thumbsup:

    BCM makes a good product, and I think 11.5" should be your limit for an SBR/pistol build.
     

    calicojack

    American Sporting Rifle
    MDS Supporter
    May 29, 2018
    5,348
    Cuba on the Chesapeake
    Many many thanks for the valuable response. That gave me several options to consider now - getting a name brand ruger AR15 pistol is definitely very attractive.

    I think I will just build one PSA according to my plan, and one ready-to-use Ruger. Now the fun part the both agonizing and fun journey of endless reviews of the Ruger model, and also the 9mm pistol as well.

    Oh, one question I just need to confirm again. So I can order the PSA "AR-15 Pistol Upper Receiver 11.5" 5.56" online and ship to my home, right ? I should get the new bare receiver first then order the PSA upper. (I am just quite concerned with the short barrel upper in regard to to constructive possession).

    I already have 2 Kel tec sub 2000 so 9mm is low priority at this point. I love the kel tec, especially the interchangeable mag with my glock. Only thing I do not like is the cheap material. I hope Kel tec will make a high end metal based sub 2000.

    Again, really appreciate for the comments. I learned so much



    Josh:)

    I would get a BCM upper if you can afford it. PSA is good (I have a couple PSA uppers), but BCM is better. I have three BCM uppers.
     

    omegared24

    Ultimate Member
    Dec 23, 2011
    4,747
    Ijamsville, MD
    I know some people in this thread are saying PSA is good and they've never had problems but I caution the OP with a PSA purchase. The are notorious for using the customer as a test subject for QC. That is both materiel AND assembly.

    Also, they do use FN barrels for some products but they are NOT the same as what FN puts out for the military or their own commercial line.
     

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