.357 Mag Rifle Hunting

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  • danb

    dont be a dumbass
    Feb 24, 2013
    22,704
    google is your friend, I am not.
    I agree. If a pistol only needs 700 fpe, why the jump in the rifle version?

    There is some logic to this: A pistol with 700 fpe will probably be used inside 50 yds. A rifle inside 150 yds. 357 from a rifle with 1200 fpe at the muzzle will be roughly handgun energy at 100-150 yds (because of velocity drop).
     

    outrider58

    Eats Bacon Raw
    MDS Supporter
    Jul 29, 2014
    49,818
    There is some logic to this: A pistol with 700 fpe will probably be used inside 50 yds. A rifle inside 150 yds. 357 from a rifle with 1200 fpe at the muzzle will be roughly handgun energy at 100-150 yds (because of velocity drop).

    Which is the OP's reasoning for the cartridge in this case. Oh well.
     

    smdub

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Nov 14, 2012
    4,644
    MoCo
    Unless I’m reading this chart wrong, only 3 of the 8 loads listed reach 1200 ft lbs at all, all with 16” bbl & only one with 18” bbl. Based on this I’d have to disagree with “achievable with most hunting loads”.

    All of those commercial loads are developed for pistols. Using a slower burning powder in a handloaded hunting load specifically for rifles length barrels will up the power.

    500S&W is another handgun cartridge that can be loaded w/ signiciant improvements when developing a load for a rifle length bbl. All the commercial loads are tuned for pistols. They do even better in rifles but not like a true rifle load can provide.
     

    woodline

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Jan 8, 2017
    1,947
    I also have a .45 Colt Winchester. I could always hunt with that as well now. Buffalo Bore apparently makes some ridiculous 325 grain rounds.
    If you're not 100% confident in .357 Magnum for deer and you have a long gun in .45 colt, I think you'd be well served by it.
     

    BossmanPJ

    Ultimate Member
    Feb 22, 2013
    7,057
    Cecil County
    If you're not 100% confident in .357 Magnum for deer and you have a long gun in .45 colt, I think you'd be well served by it.

    I am 100% confident in it. I just want to make sure to keep it legal. I do believe the 45 Colt with 230 or the crazy 300+ grain loads would drop one in its tracks at 50 yards.
     

    woodline

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Jan 8, 2017
    1,947
    I am 100% confident in it. I just want to make sure to keep it legal. I do believe the 45 Colt with 230 or the crazy 300+ grain loads would drop one in its tracks at 50 yards.
    In that case, I think you're going to be pleased with your results with .357mag from a rifle. Hoping for an update after you get a chance to try it out! Ive got a Rossi .357mag carbine that I'd love to use. Hopefully next year!
     

    6Den

    Active Member
    Feb 10, 2013
    835
    Howard County
    This is frustrating. I also have a 77/357 that I would love to hunt with. It is rather finicky with ammo though, showing a strong preference for Federal AE 158gr JSP. I don't think this load makes the minimum requirement.
     

    TargetGrade

    Banned
    BANNED!!!
    Aug 13, 2017
    2,970
    Pensultucky
    Why risk hassle with a overly zealous warden? The 357 is debatable and minimum at best, step up to a 44 and leave all doubt out of the equation.
     

    6Den

    Active Member
    Feb 10, 2013
    835
    Howard County
    Why risk hassle with a overly zealous warden? The 357 is debatable and minimum at best, step up to a 44 and leave all doubt out of the equation.
    Because it's a sensible and legitimate choice? Every caliber, gun, hunter has their own limitations...even the .44! Makes no sense that different rules apply to the .357 handgun. Who can guarantee the handgunner won't stretch the limits?
     

    TargetGrade

    Banned
    BANNED!!!
    Aug 13, 2017
    2,970
    Pensultucky
    Because it's a sensible and legitimate choice? Every caliber, gun, hunter has their own limitations...even the .44! Makes no sense that different rules apply to the .357 handgun. Who can guarantee the handgunner won't stretch the limits?

    They set the rules, not us. Why look for trouble?
     

    ted76

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Jan 20, 2013
    3,151
    Frederick
    You can hunt deer in Maryland with a handgun but it has to make at least 700 Ft-Lbs. muzzle energy out of a minimum 6" barrel and a quick look at Ammo & Ballistics does not show the .357 Magnum making that thresh hold. Among the more common calibers you would need .44 Magnum, .454 Casull, .480 Ruger or .50 caliber.

    Correction: Aguila makes .357 Magnum ammo that is advertised to be 838 Ft-Lbs. muzzle energy.
    https://www.aguilaammo.com/centerfire/#pistoltab

    MD hunting regs showing ammo requirements:
    http://www.eregulations.com/maryland/hunting/white-tailed-deer-seasons-bag-limits/

    Back in the late 80's or early 90's ,DNR issued a letter, stating that the .357 Magnum was acceptable for hunting Deer, with a handgun in Maryland, as long as you use a 6" or longer barrel. As there were some loads available, that producted 700 FPE, out of a 6" barrel. The letter didn't say that you had to use any specific load. I tink that I still have a copy of the letter, if I find it I will post it.
     

    BossmanPJ

    Ultimate Member
    Feb 22, 2013
    7,057
    Cecil County
    Just another strange rule. By DNR standards you can legally hunt with a Henry Mares Leg in .357 because it qualifies as a “handgun” and be fine. But if it had a stock on it you may not. To me if you can hunt with the same round producing far less FPE in a handgun than it should be acceptable for a rifle as well.

    I know, I know..... laws don’t have to make sense.
     

    sxs

    Senior Member
    MDS Supporter
    Nov 20, 2009
    3,378
    Anne Arundel County, MD
    Back in the late 80's or early 90's ,DNR issued a letter, stating that the .357 Magnum was acceptable for hunting Deer, with a handgun in Maryland, as long as you use a 6" or longer barrel. As there were some loads available, that producted 700 FPE, out of a 6" barrel. The letter didn't say that you had to use any specific load. I tink that I still have a copy of the letter, if I find it I will post it.

    Back in the 80s, the foot lbs requirement was only 600ft lbs. It was upgraded later. My thought at the time was they did it to exclude 357 for pistols. Of course, some stepped up to the plate to increase energy in 357 for their specific loads.
     

    Doco Overboard

    Ultimate Member
    Your 357 rifle should be a reasonable choice for a short range deer rifle if you make a good hit and select an appropriate projectile. Nobody asks for proof of ballistics with a 45 cal 128 rb muzzle-loader which is at or maybe slightly bests 357 ballistics energy at the muzzle only.
    The only thing I would be concerned about is the tool really adequate for the job regardless of what the writing on the box says. Shoot some deer with it and make a determination for yourself.
    My guess is some kills will go well, others not so much.
     

    danb

    dont be a dumbass
    Feb 24, 2013
    22,704
    google is your friend, I am not.
    My guess is some kills will go well, others not so much.

    But this can be said of anything. I've seen deer hit square from a 12ga slug gun at under 20 yards multiple times and still refuse to die. I pulled a three week old slug out of a large buck once. On the other hand, I've hit deer with my bow and dropped them on the spot. Sometimes slugs dont expand, and sometimes bucks are so amped up on rut energy they don't know that they are supposed to be dead.
     

    outrider58

    Eats Bacon Raw
    MDS Supporter
    Jul 29, 2014
    49,818
    But this can be said of anything. I've seen deer hit square from a 12ga slug gun at under 20 yards multiple times and still refuse to die. I pulled a three week old slug out of a large buck once. On the other hand, I've hit deer with my bow and dropped them on the spot. Sometimes slugs dont expand, and sometimes bucks are so amped up on rut energy they don't know that they are supposed to be dead.

    Yup.
     

    Biggfoot44

    Ultimate Member
    Aug 2, 2009
    32,884
    Yes, a .357 rifle is plenty for deer , within reasonable distance. Yes , I have gone with .357 rifle ( Rossi M92 clone) . In Maryland. Bambi didn't cooperate though .

    Ft Lb in vacuum is a very poor predictor of hunting effectiveness. Having chrono'ed stuff from the Rossi , loads with highest ft lb aren't necessarily the best for deer . 125's have sizzling velocities, and hence energy on paper . But not suitable for deer at those speeds .

    Brian Pearse has written a feature in Handloader on handloading, and hunting with .357 rifles . To briefly recap :

    Factory 158 jacketed loads typically run mid 1700's .

    Handloaded to 40k CUP level , gives 1900-2000fps ( using Lil' Gun and 296 ) .

    Top handloads are matching the energy of 150gr .30-30 factory loads ( with advantage of larger diameter ) .

    At these velocities , the issue is on the jhp bullets performing, and not blowing up . XTP , Gold Dot , and the discontinued Speer "half jacket" provided the desired controlled expansion and penetration.

    For he and his sons , these loads perform well on Idaho Mule Deer .
     

    BossmanPJ

    Ultimate Member
    Feb 22, 2013
    7,057
    Cecil County
    But this can be said of anything. I've seen deer hit square from a 12ga slug gun at under 20 yards multiple times and still refuse to die. I pulled a three week old slug out of a large buck once. On the other hand, I've hit deer with my bow and dropped them on the spot. Sometimes slugs dont expand, and sometimes bucks are so amped up on rut energy they don't know that they are supposed to be dead.

    My father shot a buck a few years back dead through the lung with a 12ga and it wouldn’t go down. It also did not run. He hit it again in the same spot and a third time in the heart before it finally dropped.

    Not saying I agree with this one way or the other, but I know a lot of hunters that go for neck shots if possible because they typically drop on the spot. The doe I shot this year was hit dead through the heart and it still ran 30 yards or so.
     

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