SAF Sues Illinois over LTC Residency Requirements

press1280 · Sep 21, 2016

Oral arguments set for tomorrow, should have audio at some point later in the day http://media.ca7.uscourts.gov/oralArguments/oar.jsp?caseyear=&casenumber=&period=Today

Panel won't be known until 9AM CST, 30 minutes before argument, check here http://www.ca7.uscourts.gov/cal/calendar.pdf

press1280 · Sep 22, 2016

press1280 said:
Oral arguments set for tomorrow, should have audio at some point later in the day http://media.ca7.uscourts.gov/oralArguments/oar.jsp?caseyear=&casenumber=&period=Today

Panel won't be known until 9AM CST, 30 minutes before argument, check here http://www.ca7.uscourts.gov/cal/calendar.pdf

Judges are Bauer, Posner, Manion

Slam dunk IMO

Knuckle Dragger · Sep 22, 2016

It's up: http://media.ca7.uscourts.gov/sound/external/jo.15-3738.15-3738_09_22_2016.mp3

swinokur · Sep 22, 2016

Currently IL only honors resident permits from 4 states, claiming they are the only ones with similar requirements. If the state loses, I wonder if the only non resident permits honored wouldbe those 4 or any others. i got these off of the IL SP web page and handgunlaw.

press1280 · Sep 22, 2016

swinokur said:
Currently IL only honors resident permits from 4 states, claiming they are the only ones with similar requirements. If the state loses, I wonder if the only non resident permits honored wouldbe those 4 or any others. i got these off of the IL SP web page and handgunlaw.

Actually, IL doesn't honor ANY out of state permits. They merely allow residents of those 4 states (who have resident permits) to apply and obtain an IL license.

press1280 · Sep 22, 2016

Knuckle Dragger said:
It's up: http://media.ca7.uscourts.gov/sound/external/jo.15-3738.15-3738_09_22_2016.mp3

Sounds like Bauer and Manion got it while Posner was either testing Sigale (Culp's attorney) or thinks the state's interests are better served throwing out the baby with the bath water and denying residents of 45 states the right to carry in IL because someone with a mental history past will slip through and get a permit. I would venture the number of people that fall into this narrow category is few and far between, not nearly enough to justify a ban.

Although I know Posner certainly isn't comfortable with guns in any capacity, I was disappointed he seemingly is going contrary to his own opinion in Moore.

swinokur · Sep 22, 2016

press1280 said:
Actually, IL doesn't honor ANY out of state permits. They merely allow residents of those 4 states (who have resident permits) to apply and obtain an IL license.

I stand corrected. i wonder if the state loses, will IL allow any person to apply or will they stick to their very narrow list of states but extend it to non residents of those states?

press1280 · Sep 22, 2016

swinokur said:
I stand corrected. i wonder if the state loses, will IL allow any person to apply or will they stick to their very narrow list of states but extend it to non residents of those states?

Since it deals more with the reporting of the state, I'd say all or nothing. I don't think non resident licenses will matter here.

swinokur · Sep 22, 2016

The judges seemed concerned about the state's refusal to even allow applications.

maybe I am wrong.

press1280 · Sep 22, 2016

swinokur said:
The judges seemed concerned about the state's refusal to even allow applications.

maybe I am wrong.

2 of them did and were asking about applicants filling in extra info to satisfy the state, but it was pointed out the application online won't allow you to proceed without a valid state 4 current states plus Illinois.

CypherPunk · Sep 22, 2016

Can anyone post the latest survey sent to Maryland by Illinois in order to determine if Maryland's laws are substantially similar?
Or Maryland's response?

I'm sure the MSP and the Governor won't ignore the survey again, like they did in 2013 (below)?

swinokur · Sep 23, 2016

I went to the IL SP web site to see if an updated list is available and I'm getting a 404 error when clicking the link.

https://www.ispfsb.com/Public/FAQ.aspx

Even if MD answers the questionnaire, they have no prohibition on a permit for a voluntary admission to a mental health facility within the past 5 years.. that alone would seem to eliminate MD because the IL requirement of "substantially similar in the IL statute.

that's why only 4 state resident permits qualify.

This is from the IL SP FAQ.
.

Inigoes · Sep 23, 2016

The concealed carry license being stored in the National Law Enforcement Teletype System (NLETS) is interesting.

Meaning any agency would have access to your personal information like a criminal.

swinokur · Sep 23, 2016

Here is the list of states that have CCW license info access via NLETS.
.

CypherPunk · Sep 23, 2016

Here is a copy of the survey Illinois sent to all states:
View attachment Substantially Similar Survey Questions.pdf

Here is a link to all the returned surveys (be patient - it takes a while to load)

Here is a good write-up on Illinois non-resident carry, including the fact that the Illinois State Police added qualifications that WERE NOT required by the legislature.

From my friends in Illinois PIA request...
"Unfortunately, Maryland didn't respond to the original 2013 survey (as you know), nor did they respond in 2015."

I cannot believe that IL State Police would make up requirements on their own, or that the MD State Police would lose paperwork.

Maybe this important intergovernmental paperwork was sent to our Governor's Facebook page by mistake and it was accimatically deleted?

swinokur · Sep 23, 2016

Since SC does not have acess to CCW queries via NLETS, I wonder how they qualified as "substantially similar."?

swinokur · Sep 23, 2016

IL SP followed MSP's example of making stuff up like adding live fire to the HQL requirement when it wasn't mentioned in the legislation.

same playbook.

stm · Sep 23, 2016

swinokur said:
IL SP followed MSP's example of making stuff up like adding live fire to the HQL requirement when it wasn't mentioned in the legislation.

same playbook.

ISP played games with our live fire qualification. They sent a memo to instructors that in order to count, the bullet must strike the target within the scoring rings of the B27 target. That would mean that head shots would receive zero score.

When we pointed out that the statute required that applicants must "strike the target with 70% of the rounds fired," and not just within scoring rings on the silhouette, they reluctantly retracted their scoring memo.

ISP has taken every opportunity to enforce the Illinois carry law as restrictively and narrowly as possible, even overstepping their authority on more than one occasion.

CypherPunk · Sep 30, 2016

As of the end of the day on Aug 31, 2016, there were 197,860 active FCCLs (197,831 resident + 29 nonresident) and 2,052,443 active FOID cards.

Source: http://illinoiscarry.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=63235

DanGuy48 · Oct 9, 2016

We need every friend we can get.

sxs said:
what many think when they join the NRA is that they have done their part. It certainly helps the NRA when they can say they represent 5 million owners, but the money that goes to the NRA itself is for your magazine and membership benefits, range improvement funds, event sponsorships etc. And membership fees don't even cover all those costs! The political and lobbying money is spent in the NRA/ILA (Institute for Legislative Action) and the PVF. The ILA is primarily political lobbying with some promotion of candidates either through NRA ads. The PVF (Political Victory Fund). The PVF provides the NRAs 'grading' of candidates plus contributions to many candidates as well as targeted advertising.

See : http://www.nraila.org/media/4584295/nrailabrochure.pdf

Both the ILA and PVF make use of donations directly to them. This separation of responsibilities helps the NRA keep it's tax status.

Because there are finite resources, sometimes the NRA has had to choose their fights. For example, they opposed taking SB281 to referendum. Why? In their opinion, the referendum would be lost and the best bet would be to wage the fights in court. The SAF doesn't always share these views and are therefore, often more aggressive in their approach. Then again, they don't mess around with grading of the candidates and other things. Because the NRA has many irons in the fire, the SAF has the luxury of targeting certain issues. They both play huge roles in gun rights

SAF Sues Illinois over LTC Residency Requirements

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