45 ACP/45 LC/.410 Revolver controversy?

Tylenator · May 22, 2012

Wow there's a lot to soak in here haha

safecracker · May 22, 2012

I love my Judge.

I named him 'LEGG'.

Used to call him 'SHAFT' cause he's a baaaaad motha....watch yo mouf!

Cai · May 22, 2012

joppaj said:
DON'T. That snake shot won't stop a dedicated attacker and you may only get one shot. That shot MUST count, use a good 125gr JHP and trust your life to it.

If you want a .45lc double action, I'd look for a Ruger Redhawk. The .45lc is an incredible round and the Redhawk will handle the hottest factory loads with ease.

No it wouldn't. Flechettes do not weigh enough to be effective defensive rounds as a rule.

Would you recomend the Redhawk as a first handgun?

And I thought flechettes had good penitration? Or is that video game stuff bleeding through?

Cai · May 22, 2012

safecracker said:
I love my Judge.

I named him 'LEGG'.

Used to call him 'SHAFT' cause he's a baaaaad motha....watch yo mouf!

Does this mean the holster is called FOOT?

BradMacc82 · May 22, 2012

Flechettes are best used in video-games.

Even in 12ga shells they weren't that impressive, more hype than anything, from my own experimentation with them.

Tylenator · May 22, 2012

BradMacc82 said:
Flechettes are best used in video-games.

Even in 12ga shells they weren't that impressive, more hype than anything, from my own experimentation with them.

But how would you feel after taking a flechette round to the center mass? Maybe the second shot in your shoulder, some if it into your face? Granted this is my ignorance since I've not messed with flechette, this is also my logic. I'd think it would be effective in close quarter combat. Maybe not as effective as other things, but still effective?

safecracker · May 22, 2012

Tylenator said:
But how would you feel after taking a flechette round to the center mass? Maybe the second shot in your shoulder, some if it into your face? Granted this is my ignorance since I've not messed with flechette, this is also my logic. I'd think it would be effective in close quarter combat. Maybe not as effective as other things, but still effective?

In close quarters, you have to assume you will have only one shot. A second is a luxury. A third is a fantasy.

That shot had better count.

Plan accordingly.

Tylenator · May 23, 2012

safecracker said:
In close quarters, you have to assume you will have only one shot. A second is a luxury. A third is a fantasy.

That shot had better count.

Plan accordingly.

Well ideally shots 1, 2, and 3 will all happen very quickly :-p

Don't stop shooting until the threat is incapacitated/no longer a threat.

But I agree, in CQB the first shot counts, assuming its a hit. Give this a read, you should find it interesting.

http://www.activeresponsetraining.net/an-alternate-look-at-handgun-stopping-power

joppaj · May 23, 2012

Cai said:
Would you recomend the Redhawk as a first handgun?

IF you wanted a well made revolver, sure. It's a standard modern Ruger double action revolver, that means it's not the prettiest girl at the party but it's a big solid one that you're not going to break. The ONLY reason that I'd recommend a GP-100 in .357 before it is because .357 is both easier to find and usually cheaper for defensive ammo.

safecracker said:
In close quarters, you have to assume you will have only one shot. A second is a luxury. A third is a fantasy.

That shot had better count.

Plan accordingly.

Well said.

jimbobborg · May 23, 2012

I've been wanting a .45 Colt Redhawk for years. I've just never had the money when I found one for sale. You asked about a gun that shot .45 Colt and ACP, which is why I recommended the Blackhawk. If this is doing double-duty as a defensive gun, get a double-action in whatever caliber you choose. A 255gr JHP will ruin anyones day, and loaded properly, will drop a black bear.

Biggfoot44 · May 23, 2012

.45 Colt bore sizes went to .451/.452 aka same as .45acp , imeadately post WWII . Chamber and throat dimentions remail consistantly inconsistant to this day.

For many years all .45Colt factory loads used a faly soft hollow based lead bullet that would bump up and or swage down to wide range of dimentions with decent accuraccy.

ASFIL all of the jacket bullets/ factory loads for .45LC use(d) standard .451-.452 size.

Meanwhile CCI shotshells will reliably kill extra large Barn Rats within range. But as noted this is the opposite of SD load.

I suppose a .410 slug that hit would do somthing quasi worthwhile , but not as well as a conventional .45Colt fired from a conventional .45LC cylnder. That's the rub. Shooting a .45 from a .410 compatable chamber ( 3in even worse than 2.5in) has a huge freebore. This results in major vel loss , and usually poor accuraccy. This might be a trade off if were were going NFA with a smoothbore bbl to get meaningful patterns , but with rifiling ....

To the OP , if you are ok with a large frame revolver , the Redhawk is a fine revolver.

Kinbote · May 23, 2012

Jacketed bullets for sale from Hornady, Speer, and other manufacturers are sized .451 when intended for ACP loads (185gr JHP, 230 FMJ, etc) and those bullets intended for .45 Colt (250 gr JHP)are sized .452. If you cast your own you can always size them however you want.

Flechettes are used to get extended range, denser patterns and, to some extent, better body armor penetration than buckshot. They used to be available fairly cheap from Numrich but I haven't seen any in a while. They don't have a lot of surface area so they don't have the wide wound track of 00 Buck (.32/33 cal), let alone 0000 Buck (.38 cal). I used to get pretty tight patterns with them at 75yds using BP wraps, but they were expensive and a pain to load.

A GP100 would be better for home defense than a Redhawk in most situations, since the Redhawk is very large and unwieldy. Most models are close to four pounds and more than a foot long. You might as well have an 870.

BradMacc82 · May 23, 2012

Tylenator said:
But how would you feel after taking a flechette round to the center mass? Maybe the second shot in your shoulder, some if it into your face? Granted this is my ignorance since I've not messed with flechette, this is also my logic. I'd think it would be effective in close quarter combat. Maybe not as effective as other things, but still effective?

Aside from a soft pillow - I'm not going to be too happy about taking anything to the face.

But I can guaran-damn-tee you, that first shot had better count and had better take the fight clean out of your opponent, because otherwise your going to have an even angrier and more determined foe to deal with.

Flechette's have been around for some time now, if they were that great, they'd still be used, the fact that they're not, says more than I need to. :innocent0

joppaj · May 24, 2012

Kinbote said:
A GP100 would be better for home defense than a Redhawk in most situations, since the Redhawk is very large and unwieldy. Most models are close to four pounds and more than a foot long.

Actually the .45lc is only offered in a 4.2" barrel, same as the most common GP-100 and with an identical overall length of 9.5". For the .44 varieties, I'd agree with you, but I wouldn't suggest a .44 for self defense against humans.

jimbobborg · May 24, 2012

Kinbote said:
A GP100 would be better for home defense than a Redhawk in most situations, since the Redhawk is very large and unwieldy. Most models are close to four pounds and more than a foot long. You might as well have an 870.

You're thinking of the Super Redhawk. The Redhawk is about the same size as my S&W N-Frame, the Super is about the same size as a S&W X-Frame.

HardHatMan · May 24, 2012

Tylenator said:
But how would you feel after taking a flechette round to the center mass? Maybe the second shot in your shoulder, some if it into your face? Granted this is my ignorance since I've not messed with flechette, this is also my logic. I'd think it would be effective in close quarter combat. Maybe not as effective as other things, but still effective?

There are better options out there than the flechette rounds and birdshot. I would much rather take a flechette load to center mass than a typical .45 cal self load. The face shot is a fantasy. In a self defense situation you will want to aim for center mass rather than aiming for someones face, especially under extreme stress. It will be a lot easier to hit the larger area. Some guy all hopped up on crack or meth will be a tough cookie to take out. I don't think a flechette load has the mass to penetrate enough to hit vital organs. A typical self defense round does. That is what they were designed for.

Biggfoot44 · May 24, 2012

Nothing wrong w/ a .44 for SD. Loaded with good .44spl HPs , or possably Speer Short Bbl 200gr med vel Magnum..

joppaj · May 24, 2012

Biggfoot44 said:
Nothing wrong w/ a .44spl for SD. Loaded with good .44spl HPs , or possably Speer Short Bbl .

It's a great round, just hard to find in my experience.

BenL · May 24, 2012

adjusterr said:
You are so right about opinionated people. I have had a Taurus Judge with a 6" barrel for about three years and have shot countless rounds of both .410 and .45 LC. I have seen no adverse effects and the pistol works perfectly. Re: accuracy, last Fall I practically beheaded a groundhog in my garden, at about25' using a Winchester PDX1 shotshell. I really don't understand the negative opinions regarding the Judge. I personally am of the opinion the negative comments are coming from individuals who don't own nor have they tested a Judge revolver. I know this for a fact,I would not want to be on the receiving end of either a PDX1 load or a .45 long Colt. I have several choices of self defense pistols and the Judge is my bedside choice.

Great pic. You look very happy with yourself. What did you just shoot?

Kinbote · May 24, 2012

You're thinking of the Super Redhawk. The Redhawk is about the same size as my S&W N-Frame, the Super is about the same size as a S&W X-Frame.

http://www.ruger.com/products/redhawk/models.html

I was thinking of the Redhawk .44 mag. Looks like they do make a .45 Colt Redhawk with a 4" bbl that weighs about three lbs and is 10" long, which is much smaller than the .44 Redhawk(13" long, 54 oz),

The Super Redhawk is actually an ounce lighter than the Redhawk in the same bbl length. Having all that extra investment cast stuff on the frame is very bulky, but it isn't as dense as the bbl steel, so apparently the extra bit of underlug on the Redhawk makes it weigh more than the "Super".

The GP100 is still a good bit lighter and smaller than the Redhawk, and the GP100 isn't exactly svelte.

45 ACP/45 LC/.410 Revolver controversy?

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