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  • Moorvogi

    Firearm Advocate
    Dec 28, 2014
    855
    been reloading for a couple years but new to casting bullets. and always have something to learn.

    i cast some bullets, resized them and about 95% of them are fine.. however... every once in a while the slide wont shut (semi auto).

    i had reloaded probably 800-900 rounds of FMJ bullets and no issues. i changed to cast bullets and i'm having issues. I'm not sure what to share because i have no idea wahts going on.. open to thoughts ideas... things to check etc.

    i posted this same post on the cast bullets website but figured i'll post here too incase it's an issue beyond "cast bullets"
     

    Moorvogi

    Firearm Advocate
    Dec 28, 2014
    855
    I had the same issue. I switch to a Lee Factory Crimp Die and it solve the problem.

    makes sense. when i think about "what else changed" i decided to flair the mouth of the brass this time. It wasn't a big deal w/ the FMJ but i was getting little shavings w/ the cast bullets so i flaired it more.

    perhaps i'm not "putting it back" enough.

    i'll give this a shot (see what i did there?).
     

    R1125

    Active Member
    Apr 11, 2013
    424
    Frederick
    I had the same little shavings with the cast. Took me awhile to figure it out.

    Are you powder coating your cast bullets?
     

    John from MD

    American Patriot
    MDS Supporter
    May 12, 2005
    22,733
    Socialist State of Maryland
    been reloading for a couple years but new to casting bullets. and always have something to learn.

    i cast some bullets, resized them and about 95% of them are fine.. however... every once in a while the slide wont shut (semi auto).

    i had reloaded probably 800-900 rounds of FMJ bullets and no issues. i changed to cast bullets and i'm having issues. I'm not sure what to share because i have no idea wahts going on.. open to thoughts ideas... things to check etc.

    i posted this same post on the cast bullets website but figured i'll post here too incase it's an issue beyond "cast bullets"

    Are you dropping some of your reloads into a Cartridge Case gauge? If you don't have one, measure the case mouth of one of your reloads and see if it is within SAAMI specs.
    Additionally, your COAL may be too long and the bullet ogive is hitting the lead of the chamber.
     

    PowPow

    Where's the beef?
    Nov 22, 2012
    4,712
    Howard County
    I use both a case gauge when setting the crimp and also plunk test in the barrel that I'm going to shoot. The second check is especially important with cast boolits (as John said). Feed issues can be related to bullet type or COL. You didn't mention the bullet you're casting. I use much more flare with cast than I do with plated and FMJ. If you don't use enough flare, you might notice not only shavings, but also cuts on the bullet (if you pull one and look at it). As you reload the same brass over and over, you want to look for cracked mouths as the extra flare stresses it a bit more. I noticed two just last week - but my they had about 12 loads on them. Others in the same batch were fine.

    Also, if you're shooting cast in a handgun, check if that gun's barrel has polygonal rifling. Most manufacturers and many handloaders will recommend not shooting cast boolits through polygonal rifling. Some even go as far to say not to shoot plated bullets as well, to stick only with FMJ. I'll just urge caution and suggest paying attention to the below.

    I assume you've also slugged the barrel you're casting them for. Proper sizing, COL, and correct bullet lube for your application will all work together to reduce potential for leading, and you'll want to watch for those signs as you work up your load. Happy casting to ya!
     

    atblis

    Ultimate Member
    May 23, 2010
    2,011
    What diameter are your cast bullets?

    Most likely it's your flaring. Get a cast bullet friendly flaring die. I highly recommend the Lyman M die. I use it for regular jacketed bullets too.

    The Lee factory crimp die is a band-aid and can cause problems. It's simply a plain old crimp die just like any other except that it has a carbide sizing ring very similar to the regular sizing die. When using the FCD, you might have the scenario where with thicker brass, and larger bullets, you're sizing the bullets with the Lee FCD. The rifle type Lee FCD is a whole other beast, so don't confuse the two.

    1) Get a Lyman M die. You'll want to adjust to the stepped portion of the flare.
    2) Lightly taper crimp just enough to remove any flaring at the case mouth but no more.

    Are you using mixed brass? Pistol brass varies in thickness. Remington is really thin sometimes. Not sure which brands run on the thick side. If your bullets are on the large side, and your brass is on the thick side,...
     

    Moorvogi

    Firearm Advocate
    Dec 28, 2014
    855
    all great feedback. i'm fairly sure it's the flairing because i didn't have the issue before but.. i also wasn't flaring the brass.. Made it harder to seat the bullets but it worked for FMJ. For w/e reason, i didn't even think about a case gauge for pistol. I use them for rifle/bottle necked brass but.. never crossed my mind to use it for pistol/strait wall chambers
     

    atblis

    Ultimate Member
    May 23, 2010
    2,011
    One thing you can do is to use a black marker and color the bullets/case mouth. Take the barrel out of the gun, and insert the round fully into the chamber a few times. You may be able to see where the round is hanging up. It's not unheard of for pistols to be chambered/throated a little tight. This can show up if you're using an atypical weight/profile bullet. I seem to remember CZ being one of typical offenders. It's usually the action pistol types who encounter this though.
     

    Moorvogi

    Firearm Advocate
    Dec 28, 2014
    855
    it was the flairing. i got a factory crimp die, loaded 400 rounds.. zero issues.
     

    atblis

    Ultimate Member
    May 23, 2010
    2,011
    I don't see where you said you measured anything. Have you stuck a micrometer on your loaded rounds (good calipers would suffice)?

    ETA: I say this because you may now have undersized bullets and not realize it.
     

    Moorvogi

    Firearm Advocate
    Dec 28, 2014
    855
    I don't see where you said you measured anything. Have you stuck a micrometer on your loaded rounds (good calipers would suffice)?

    ETA: I say this because you may now have undersized bullets and not realize it.

    GREAT question and reasoning. yes.

    I check the size of bullets and store them in "batches". Unsized bullets in pile A, resized bullets in pile b and put a label in the container as well as measure them prior to loading as a sanity check. I also measure the COAL every 50 rounds or so but every time on the first 5.
     

    noylj

    Active Member
    Jun 3, 2012
    144
    Lead bullets and a factory crimp die is one the really fast ways to get barrel leading, poor accuracy, and key holing. For lead bullets, use a standard taper crimp die and remove sufficient case mouth flare. Hold the case up to a white background and be sure you don't see any case mouth flare. You can feel along the bullet and feel case mouth flare. Your case mouth should be 0.3800-0.377".
    Since you found the problem, this does not apply directly to you, just a FYI:
    In all the cases I've seen, the issue is seating the bullet crooked (poor seating stem fit or improper (too little) case expansion and case mouth flaring.
    Your rounds, near the case mouth should be 0.3811 -0.007/+0.000 and the chamber should be 0.382 -0.000/+0.004. A bullet that is 0.002" larger than nominal (0.3555") would only add 0.0005" to each side.
    Do a Plunk test and verify what your problem is.

    Plunk Testing:

    Take the barrel out of the gun. Drop rounds in until you find one that won't chamber. Take that round and "paint" the bullet and case black with Magic Marker or other marker. Drop round in barrel (or gage) and rotate it back-and-forth a few times.

    Remove and inspect the round:

    1) Scratches in the ink on bullet--COL is too long
    2) Scratches in the ink on edge of the case mouth--insufficient crimp
    3) Scratches in the ink just below the case mouth--too much crimp, you're crushing the case
    4) Scratches in the ink on case at base of bullet--bullet seated crooked due to insufficient case expansion (not case mouth flare) or improper seating stem fit
    5) Scratches in the ink on case just above extractor groove--case bulge not removed during sizing. May need a bulge buster.

    Plunk_test_picture.jpg
    [/url][/IMG]
     

    atblis

    Ultimate Member
    May 23, 2010
    2,011
    GREAT question and reasoning. yes.

    I check the size of bullets and store them in "batches". Unsized bullets in pile A, resized bullets in pile b and put a label in the container as well as measure them prior to loading as a sanity check. I also measure the COAL every 50 rounds or so but every time on the first 5.

    I mean after loaded in a case. What's the OD of the case mouth with a bullet seated? You can get an idea if you're flaring too much and or removing the flare with the crimp (which is mostly what crimping isf for in this case).

    If the bullet is 0.401", the case walls are 0.010" and after loading and Lee FCD the OD of the case at the mouth is 0.600", guess what happened to your bullets?

    It's also hard to get a correct OD measurement with calipers. An appropriate micrometer is much better. With good technique, calipers can suffice.

    This comes back to the LEE FCD being a bandaid without bothering to make a diagnosis. Start measuring and figure out what the problem is first. Maybe the the FCD is a valid solution, maybe not.

    If you're loading cast bullets, get a better flaring die. The Lyman M dies are good. There are others that are good too.
     

    Moorvogi

    Firearm Advocate
    Dec 28, 2014
    855
    previously, i had NO crimper (roll/factory/taper) setup. this worked but i also wasn't flaring the mouth case open AT ALL. i opened the mouth a little for cast bullets and was closing the mouth while seating the bullet. this lead to some (not all) bullets failing to feed into the chamber. It was closing the mouth again but not enough to make it consistently feed. i put the FCD in and slowly crimped it little by little until it would feed all the ones i pulled out previously as "non fitting".

    i shot 500 rounds, no leading issues, no failure to feed/eject. flawless. Though i didn't check for key-holing because i was shooting gongs....
     

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