Is FFL123 a joke?

RW2111 · Apr 3, 2012

is this a legit program or whats the catch

MDFF2008 · Apr 3, 2012

Need more details

RW2111 · Apr 3, 2012

www.ffl123.com

JavaDan · Apr 3, 2012

The catch is, I believe, that having the federal license will not be enough for you to conduct business as an FFL.

Notice on the web site that he states you must comply with state and local regulations within 30 days of your federal approval.

His program MAY help you get the federal license, but I bet you would be on your own from there.

I'm pretty sure you would have to get a state license as well, and I seem to recall that MD requires a store front and is very stingy with the licenses.

I do not speak from any experience, so if I'm off base with this others can feel free to correct me.

If you are seriously considering this, I would first speak to a current FFL dealer or an attorney to find out what the state requires. If it sounds too good to be true, then it usually is.

matt.ruszala · Apr 3, 2012

They are legit

RW2111 said:
is this a legit program or whats the catch

The good thing about it is he has all the requirements at your finger tips. No searching around. Everything is right there. Just download all the files and read them. It was worth the $60 in my opinion. Generally speaking I have heard the store front thing but I'm in the process of setting up my business name as we speak. I am not going to go forthe FFL until I beat the Maryland hoop jump. You have to have all your Sate stuff straight before the ATF will even consider your application.

Get the material for $60 or search all over and find it yourself. The $60 is the better bet.

boatbod · Apr 3, 2012

My understanding is you need to be squared away with your county (zoning, business license etc) before you will be granted the FFL.

I don't know much about state firearms dealer licensing requirements, but I don't think have to worry about getting one until you receive your FFL since the state license only applies to transfer of MD regulated weapons.

These are the application requirements listed on MDSP Licensing Division website:

Applications will be accompanied upon submission by:

1. A copy of the applicant's current valid Federal Firearms License;
2. A copy of the applicant's current valid government issued identification card, ie; Drivers License;
3. A copy of the applicant's current trader's license, if inventory is maintained;
4. A copy of the applicant's retail sales tax license;
5. An Authorization for Release of Information;
6. Receipt that electronic fingerprints were submitted containg the tracking number;
7. Zonning Compliance Documents from the County where the business will be located;
8. A photograph of the applicant;
9. Three (3) completed Questionnaire and Recommendation forms; and
10. A check or money order for the cost of an initial or renewal application, and any other applicable fees.

Broadside · Apr 4, 2012

I've seen this question come up before not with Maryland, but with other states. It seems the biggest obstacle most people face with an "at home" FFL is zoning.

If you take a step back for a moment, would you want your neighbor running a grocery store out of his or her home? Would you want people showing up all day long and parking on your street?

I believe the legal term is "quiet enjoyment". A tenant occupying a property through ownership or lease should be able to enjoy his or her property in peace. This ends up being the basis for most zoning ordinances.

As another example, would you like your neighbor running an auto repair shop out of his home?

Most municipalities have a process to apply for an exception to zoning. In most cases, the exception can be granted if the zoning board believes that it is for the public good. There is generally a public hearing on the proposed exception.

If you can get your neighbors to agree to come and help you at the hearing, you may have a chance. Basically, you would have to get enough people in your neighborhood to come in and say we really like the idea of Mr. Smith having an FFL, we are tired of having to drive a half hour to go buy our guns.

matt.ruszala · Apr 4, 2012

Or...

Broadside said:
I've seen this question come up before not with Maryland, but with other states. It seems the biggest obstacle most people face with an "at home" FFL is zoning.

If you take a step back for a moment, would you want your neighbor running a grocery store out of his or her home? Would you want people showing up all day long and parking on your street?

I believe the legal term is "quiet enjoyment". A tenant occupying a property through ownership or lease should be able to enjoy his or her property in peace. This ends up being the basis for most zoning ordinances.

As another example, would you like your neighbor running an auto repair shop out of his home?

Most municipalities have a process to apply for an exception to zoning. In most cases, the exception can be granted if the zoning board believes that it is for the public good. There is generally a public hearing on the proposed exception.

If you can get your neighbors to agree to come and help you at the hearing, you may have a chance. Basically, you would have to get enough people in your neighborhood to come in and say we really like the idea of Mr. Smith having an FFL, we are tired of having to drive a half hour to go buy our guns.

Don't conduct business from your home even if it is the business address listed. Internet sales come to mind. That's the direction I'm going with my business. I'll keep everyone posted on how it pans out for me.

Personally I wouldn't want to sell firearms from my house. The internet on the other hand. I'll try it. If I do sell any locally, within a certain radius I may conduct business at a purchasers home. If I get deliveries it will be picked up at the shipping location and none will be delivered to my house.

Have you ever heard of a firearms dealer that delivers or makes house calls. Imagine being able to purchase from the comfort of your home. Paper work brought to you. Firearm delivered to you.

Just a thought. It could work well for people with physical disabilities.
that may want home protection but can't get out to file the paper work.

matt.ruszala · Apr 4, 2012

Yup.

boatbod said:
My understanding is you need to be squared away with your county (zoning, business license etc) before you will be granted the FFL.

I don't know much about state firearms dealer licensing requirements, but I don't think have to worry about getting one until you receive your FFL since the state license only applies to transfer of MD regulated weapons.

These are the application requirements listed on MDSP Licensing Division website:

I thought about that after I posted. You don't get to the MSP hurdle until after you get the FFL. It's a lot to absorb thats for sure. Have you ever seen the NFA handbook. A whole lot to know.

nomo613 · Apr 4, 2012

matt.ruszala said:
Have you ever heard of a firearms dealer that delivers or makes house calls. Imagine being able to purchase from the comfort of your home. Paper work brought to you. Firearm delivered to you.

Just a thought. It could work well for people with physical disabilities.
that may want home protection but can't get out to file the paper work.

weirdly enough i have. when buying my kimber i asked a friend who had just recently bought a gun how the process worked. he told me that he looked in the phone book and found an ffl that would come to your home and do the paperwork, and then come back in seven days with your gun. sure enough i called the guy up and hes an accountant who got his ffl and used his office as a store front. looking back, if i knew better then i would not have used him. he was a nice guy but the whole deal seemed so sketchy. another guy i know who had an ffl when he owned a pawn shop said that you cant fill out the papers anywhere but the store, but i dont trust him either. btw the whole transfer cost me $50 if im not mistaken.

RW2111 · Apr 4, 2012

Good info fellas thanks

Ab_Normal · Apr 5, 2012

nomo613 said:
you cant fill out the papers anywhere but the store,

BS.

Kharn · Apr 5, 2012

FFLs can only conduct business with unlicensed individuals at the address on the license (notice it is a premises license, not a personal license) or at gun shows. Traveling FFLs may be out there, but they're not abiding by the law. See § 478.50.

RW2111 · Apr 5, 2012

Kharn said:
FFLs can only conduct business with unlicensed individuals at the address on the license (notice it is a premises license, not a personal license) or at gun shows. Traveling FFLs may be out there, but they're not abiding by the law. See § 478.50.

Good to know

Ab_Normal · Apr 5, 2012

Kharn said:
FFLs can only conduct business with unlicensed individuals at the address on the license (notice it is a premises license, not a personal license) or at gun shows. Traveling FFLs may be out there, but they're not abiding by the law. See § 478.50.

And as long as they are recognized as a collector by the state of Md. that 'gun show' can be anywhere at any time.

matt.ruszala · Apr 5, 2012

I'll be feeling it all out

nomo613 said:
weirdly enough i have. when buying my kimber i asked a friend who had just recently bought a gun how the process worked. he told me that he looked in the phone book and found an ffl that would come to your home and do the paperwork, and then come back in seven days with your gun. sure enough i called the guy up and hes an accountant who got his ffl and used his office as a store front. looking back, if i knew better then i would not have used him. he was a nice guy but the whole deal seemed so sketchy. another guy i know who had an ffl when he owned a pawn shop said that you cant fill out the papers anywhere but the store, but i dont trust him either. btw the whole transfer cost me $50 if im not mistaken.

Thanks for the story. I wasn't sure if I'd get smacked around fro being an idiot thinking what I have in mind. To be honest I'm just letting this thing fold out and see what I can make happen. I really want my FFL, class III. I want to be strictly internet sales but would consider dealing for people I know who like guns. I can't imagine not being able to fill out paper work where ever you want especially if it is in a private residence.

If the State of Maryland is that stringent (store front) I will consider moving and spending the extra moneyto move my business name to another State. I look at it this way. If you have a store front you are a potential target for crime. Without one you have some protection between yourself and the internet. Dealing with people you know is the safe bet. Maybe dealing with people that your people know.

One of my things I want to do is have a few guns on hand to meet people at a range and they can try it out. That way they knowwhat they are getting once one is ordered. Like I say, that will be rare or strictly people I know.

There are a lot of dealers selling through the internet with on line auctions. That's me. On line auctions and web site. The State shouldn't have a problem with that if I'm not selling from my residence.

Thanks again for the story.

matt.ruszala · Apr 5, 2012

Thanks.

Ab_Normal said:
BS.

I'm assuming it is OK to do paperwork outside of a store. I've never seen any rule about it and I've been reading my arse off.

matt.ruszala · Apr 5, 2012

Internet sales

Kharn said:
FFLs can only conduct business with unlicensed individuals at the address on the license (notice it is a premises license, not a personal license) or at gun shows. Traveling FFLs may be out there, but they're not abiding by the law. See § 478.50.

OK. That makes sense. If one sells firearms over the internet it must be done at an FFL dealer store. Maybe I need to rethink my approach. That doesn't help physically challenged people much. Short of a straw purchase what option is there for them?

Is the 478.50 federal law or state law?

tball · Apr 5, 2012

Hook up with a liquor store and cigarettes and call the store ATF. People will come from all around for the novelty. I bet you would get a lot of free publicity too.

nomo613 · Apr 5, 2012

matt.ruszala said:
Thanks for the story. I wasn't sure if I'd get smacked around fro being an idiot thinking what I have in mind. To be honest I'm just letting this thing fold out and see what I can make happen. I really want my FFL, class III. I want to be strictly internet sales but would consider dealing for people I know who like guns. I can't imagine not being able to fill out paper work where ever you want especially if it is in a private residence.

If the State of Maryland is that stringent (store front) I will consider moving and spending the extra moneyto move my business name to another State. I look at it this way. If you have a store front you are a potential target for crime. Without one you have some protection between yourself and the internet. Dealing with people you know is the safe bet. Maybe dealing with people that your people know.

One of my things I want to do is have a few guns on hand to meet people at a range and they can try it out. That way they knowwhat they are getting once one is ordered. Like I say, that will be rare or strictly people I know.

There are a lot of dealers selling through the internet with on line auctions. That's me. On line auctions and web site. The State shouldn't have a problem with that if I'm not selling from my residence.

Thanks again for the story.

i dont think you need a real store front, rather just an address. does anyone in your family have an office that they could rent you a room or closet in? also things will have to be shipped there and youll need someone to sign off for you. when i got my gun it got delivered on a saturday and my ffl did not have anybody in the office to sign off so it went back to the post office. then he went on a hunting trip for a few days and when he got back they said that they did not know where it is. to make a long story short, my gun got lost in the post office and he had to make several trips back and forth to speak to people there and straighten it out with them. all for fifty bucks. to make matters worse, he told me that he could save me some time by starting the paperwork before he received the gun (again something that i know now is that this is way illigal) so as it is lost in the post office, it is in my mothers name, because of this guy. another thing is that he gave me the choice of buying a lock through him which costed 20 bucks because he would order it from online for 15 and charge you shipping as well. it sounds really cool to have an ffl, but it also sounds like it could turn into a real hassle. one upside to having one is you can save a lot of money when buying more guns!

Is FFL123 a joke?

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