2 Lawsuits may be a good thing. This will add pressure on the very few floppers/fencesitters needed to pass the bill, which should make the lawsuits moot. The bill was pulled so it could come back at a later time, so the lawsuits are most definitely timed accordingly IMO.
SAF files Suit in Illinois over Right to Carry
- Thread starter krucam
- Start date
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Someone should point out the huge waste of tax payer money being used to defend a law that obviously does not comply with the 2A, regardless of the antis claim of it's huge societal benefits. Look at Baltimore or Chicago or Trenton NJ to see how well it has worked.
Patrick
MSI Executive Member
Or it will add time as the state defendant rightfully asks the courts to combine the cases. This involves lots of briefs and arguments over whose case is the one to proceed, how the other plaintiffs get represented, how the teams should work together.
Time.
Hopefully the NRA and SAF avoid a pissing contest and work together on this one. I don't know who feels the most stepped on, but I bet the NRA feels like the SAF swooped in on them, this time.
Drama.
I wonder of there was any discussion between the two organizations prior to filing the suits? Seems like poor coordination unless they could not agree on a unified approach. I'm with Patrick, this could blow up in someone's face.
Patrick
MSI Executive Member
I have no insight but know someone who probably has some details. I'm not sure they matter as long as they can patch it up.
FWIW, it looks like Halbrook (of Williams) is the lead on the new NRA case.
FWIW, it looks like Halbrook (of Williams) is the lead on the new NRA case.
Al Norris
Spud Head
Patrick, the SAF lawsuit was filed in the US District Court for Central Illinois. The NRA lawsuit was filed in the US District Court for Southern Illinois.
They cannot be combined.
Since we have yet to see the NRA complaint, we don't really know if the suits are identical. Even if they are, the State will be forced to handle each one separately.
They cannot be combined.
Since we have yet to see the NRA complaint, we don't really know if the suits are identical. Even if they are, the State will be forced to handle each one separately.
Patrick
MSI Executive Member
OK, excellent point. Thank you. So maybe this was coordinated.
Also, this explains the multiple explanations in the SAF complaint of why Springfield was chosen as the venue for the case. They were drawing a line. I imagine the NRA suit will use the lead plaintiff's residence to define venue on their case, to draw a different line.
Wow. Two cases at once, both by powerhouse organizations. The SAF/NRA two-punch. Only in Illinois and Maryland.
I feel special.
Maybe a two punch is needed to prevent another two step.
krucam
Ultimate Member
The NRA/ISRA case was apparently "in the works" for close to a year according to IL's NRA liason (Todd Vandermyde). I think the SAF suit was a surprise to the NRA coalition, as they presented some apprehension after the SAF announcement (prior to NRA announcement) on Illinoiscarry.
Then again, I could be wrong...
Busy day there.
Then again, I could be wrong...
Busy day there.
krucam
Ultimate Member
I shouldn't have to tell you, but for the benefit of others, about 2 days from announcement until availability on PACER. Perhaps one of the 2 Districts involved is just slower.
sigh....
Thanks Al...
jpr9954
Member
Having read both complaints, I think each reflects the organization that filed the respective complaint.
The SAF's complaint is cleaner, less emotional, and gets to the point. The lead plaintiff in their case is a former LEO and now the Superintendent of a county jail. When he was a LEO (served 30 years in Cook County), he was approved to carry concealed while off-duty. It is hard to say (a) he doesn't know what he is doing with a firearm and (b) wouldn't face some threat due to his past work where he needs a means of self-defense.
The NRA's case definitely pulls the emotional heart strings. The lead plaintiff, Mary Shepard, was the victim of a brutal attack while working at a local Baptist Church. She holds a CCW from a couple of states and held them at the time of the attack but couldn't carry due to Illinois law. She certainly can prove she needed a firearm for self-defense but that alone might not cut it with a court. However, the NRA can use her as a "poster child" for the need for CCW when it lobbies legislators.
The one thing that bothers me a little about the NRA suit is that it sues the local sheriff and State's Attorney in addition to the AG and Governor of Illinois. Suing the sheriff maybe but I think suing the State's Attorney (local DA) is not going to get anywhere. They pretty much are immune from darn near anything.
The SAF's complaint is cleaner, less emotional, and gets to the point. The lead plaintiff in their case is a former LEO and now the Superintendent of a county jail. When he was a LEO (served 30 years in Cook County), he was approved to carry concealed while off-duty. It is hard to say (a) he doesn't know what he is doing with a firearm and (b) wouldn't face some threat due to his past work where he needs a means of self-defense.
The NRA's case definitely pulls the emotional heart strings. The lead plaintiff, Mary Shepard, was the victim of a brutal attack while working at a local Baptist Church. She holds a CCW from a couple of states and held them at the time of the attack but couldn't carry due to Illinois law. She certainly can prove she needed a firearm for self-defense but that alone might not cut it with a court. However, the NRA can use her as a "poster child" for the need for CCW when it lobbies legislators.
The one thing that bothers me a little about the NRA suit is that it sues the local sheriff and State's Attorney in addition to the AG and Governor of Illinois. Suing the sheriff maybe but I think suing the State's Attorney (local DA) is not going to get anywhere. They pretty much are immune from darn near anything.
Patrick
MSI Executive Member
You know, I see it much the same way. The SAF generally puts up people with compelling legal issues, while the NRA puts up people with compelling personal issues. Both fit and both could work.
I agree that suing a State's Attorney is a bit of a waste, but there must be some level f involvement with the issuance (or lack therein) of permits. They will file one of the many eventual motions to dismiss and maybe have it granted. We saw this in NC with SAF's Emergency Powers lawsuit. At the least, it creates a window for appeal. But it makes for a whole lot of work.
I agree that suing a State's Attorney is a bit of a waste, but there must be some level f involvement with the issuance (or lack therein) of permits. They will file one of the many eventual motions to dismiss and maybe have it granted. We saw this in NC with SAF's Emergency Powers lawsuit. At the least, it creates a window for appeal. But it makes for a whole lot of work.
krucam
Ultimate Member
Summons were issued on 5/24/2011, acknowledged 6/9/2011, responses from AG Madigan & Hiram Grau are due 7/25/2011.
Let the good times roll...
Let the good times roll...
krucam
Ultimate Member
Four cases stand to gain a lot from Ezell...Moore being one. Crap, heading to Chicago's south side in half an hour (twins@ six game) without my M&P...
You seem somehow bitter.......
krucam
Ultimate Member
You would be too if you had to deal with family for four days and the Droid misspelled Sox and...
ezliving
Besieger
I'd be surprised if the NRA and SAF don't file amicus briefs on each other's cases. Plenty of fun to go around.
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