9mm AR Lower require HQL?

MazeOfTzeentch · Sep 19, 2017

I'm looking at getting a PCC to shoot in IDPA and 3-gun, specifically a 9mm Glock magazine AR lower and I want to know if a lower such as this one requires an HQL to transfer or not. If it's any difference, I'm planning to use a 16" barrel, and thus build it as a Title I Rifle.

outrider58 · Sep 19, 2017

No cash and carry

CodeWarrior1241 · Sep 19, 2017

To tack on to this:

If someone gets said 9mm lower, runs it with a 16" upper, and then get a pistol upper with no stock, would that then be illegal?

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altima98 · Sep 19, 2017

CodeWarrior1241 said:
To tack on to this:

If someone gets said 9mm lower, runs it with a 16" upper, and then get a pistol upper with no stock, would that then be illegal?

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Pistol --> Rifle --> Pistol = OK

Rifle --> Pistol = no good

Is my any understanding

jimbobborg · Sep 19, 2017

Isn't PSA one of those places that won't sell to a resident, it must be ordered by an FFL?

outrider58 · Sep 19, 2017

CodeWarrior1241 said:
To tack on to this:

If someone gets said 9mm lower, runs it with a 16" upper, and then get a pistol upper with no stock, would that then be illegal?

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Legal if it was a pistol first.

GoldGunsGirls · Sep 19, 2017

outrider58 said:
No cash and carry

outrider58 said:
Legal

Your statements contradict each other. Your first post in this thread states the lower is cash and carry. If that is true, that means it gets transferred as a rifle, because no pistol can be transferred cash and carry in MD.

And if it is a rifle, you can never mount a <16" barrel without getting a SBR tax stamp.

Pistols can become rifles at will, but rifles can never become pistols without a stamp.

outrider58 · Sep 19, 2017

GoldGunsGirls said:
Your statements contradict each other. Your first post in this thread states the lower is cash and carry. If that is true, that means it gets transferred as a rifle, because no pistol can be transferred cash and carry in MD.

And if it is a rifle, you can never mount a <16" barrel without getting a SBR tax stamp.

Pistols can become rifles at will, but rifles can never become pistols without a stamp.

Fixed it.

You may build a pistol into a rifle, then back to a pistol. The lower is usually transferred as "other".

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lazarus · Sep 19, 2017

Correct. Lowers are transferred as an other (unless the FFL checks the wrong box). It is my understanding only the lower of a banned firearm is transferred on a 77r. Because they can be built in to a legal configuration in many cases (like an HBAR AR-15 or an AR pistol). But they are still on the banned list.

Something that isn't on the banned list, its lower transfers as an other and cash and carry after a basic background check. You then build it in to whatever you want. If you put a stock and a 16" barrel on it, you built a rifle and can never take the stock off and a pistol upper on. If you put a pistol upper on it and a brace or bare buffer tube, congrats, you are the proud daddy of a pistol. If you get tired of the pistol you can change it to a rifle and if you regret that and want to go back, you can do the dance as much as you want.

Rifles however can never be pistols. Only rifles (regular or SBR).

EarnestT · Sep 19, 2017

I just transferred a dedicated 45 acp lower and the IP made me do a 77r and wait 7 days. I had previously purchased a dedicated 9mm lower at another IP and it was cash n carry. YMMV. Good luck.

https://www.mdshooters.com/showthread.php?t=213847

GolfR · Sep 19, 2017

I find it somewhat funny that throwing a pistol brace onto the lower for five minutes before building out a rifle suddenly changes the legality making a change in the future. I guess I should take pictures or something of every lower I have with a pistol buffer tube just to sleep at night.

outrider58 · Sep 19, 2017

GolfR said:
I find it somewhat funny that throwing a pistol brace onto the lower for five minutes before building out a rifle suddenly changes the legality making a change in the future. I guess I should take pictures or something of every lower I have with a pistol buffer tube just to sleep at night.

I always did the same think(pictures) and was scolded on here by someone telling me that pictures can be faked and that it wouldn't hold up in court. If that be the case, then it is an un-provable offense. As long as the lower was transferred as "other", and not "rifle", then you should be GTG. The burden of proof rests on the state. Some people sleep under tin foil.

GolfR · Sep 19, 2017

outrider58 said:
I always did the same think(pictures) and was scolded on here by someone telling me that pictures can be faked and that it wouldn't hold up in court. If that be the case, then it is an un-provable offense. As long as the lower was transferred as "other", and not "rifle", then you should be GTG. The burden of proof rests on the state. Some people sleep under tin foil.

Innocent until proven guilty right? Unfortunately, the MSP will already have your gun and it will cost several times it's worth to get it back. In other words it doesn't matter if you have the pictures.

Arcamm · Sep 19, 2017

jimbobborg said:
Isn't PSA one of those places that won't sell to a resident, it must be ordered by an FFL?

PSA will sell a stripped lower to an individual and ship it to a FFL. They will not sell a complete lower to and individual.

DevinRPD · Sep 20, 2017

is there anywhere online that has an official stance on this topic? My FFL is waiting for a customer to get their HQL to purchase a AR9 stripped lower but would be awesome if he could just cash and carry. i trust you guys but my FFL needs more proof than what i tell them I read on the forums lol

Major03 · Sep 20, 2017

Your FFL is ill informed. It is transferred as an "other," requires the 7 day waiting period but no HQL. I've done several transfers of lowers for pistol / SBR builds with MD FFL's and have had no issues.

At the end of the day, your FFL will do what he/she is comfortable with. You may consider transferring your lower via a different FFL.

DraKhen99 · Sep 20, 2017

Oooh, cash and carry for a fully fleshed-out 9mm Glock AR lower? Count me in!

Not to threadjack too far, but I want to put together a 9mm Glock AR pistol. So if any IPs see this and it's legal to do cash & carry (or even wait 7 days), without an HQL, I'm in!

Source me a pistol upper and the world just got a little brighter.

-John

mdflyer · Sep 20, 2017

Ive been told cash and carry by a shop..

mdflyer · Sep 20, 2017

Is there a phone# to call MSP and get a straight answer?

danb · Sep 20, 2017

Major03 said:
Your FFL is ill informed. It is transferred as an "other," requires the 7 day waiting period but no HQL. I've done several transfers of lowers for pistol / SBR builds with MD FFL's and have had no issues.

At the end of the day, your FFL will do what he/she is comfortable with. You may consider transferring your lower via a different FFL.

AR lowers are 77r, 7 day wait, no HQL. MDSP issued guidance on this (see next post).

Theoretically there is not really a "9mm" or "5.56" AR lower, just AR lower. The upper determines the caliber, and that is unknown for the purpose of the the transfer. Of course if you are getting an upper, and a lower, that is a whole rifle.

As far as pistol lowers (i.e. Glock lowers) those are presumed to be pistols, so HQL required for those. Technically those can also be made into frankenrifles (i.e. Mech Tech) but the presumption is it will be a pistol.

9mm AR Lower require HQL?

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