In just over a month 118 Red Flag PO’s

Not_an_outlaw · Dec 7, 2018

I guess they aren't getting my check. I left them a note: "When I went to law school, due process was respected."

Not_an_outlaw · Dec 7, 2018

The HIPPA laws are sacrosanct. Maybe that is an avenue to pursue, then you can keep the whole "I just don't like guns" out of it.

rbird7282 · Dec 8, 2018

Name Taken said:
You are beyond wrong with your understanding of the laws of arrest.

If the police have probable cause he has access to firearms (he answered the door holding one) and they refuse to turn the gun over an arrest can be made without a warrant. To get said firearm which was inside the house you'd need lawful consent, a search warrant, or one of the few exemptions to the 4th amendment. If it was on his person or out in plain view the seizure of the firearm could legally take place without a search or arrest warrant. This is a non issue since he went back in to get said gun according to the police.

If he would have walked outside and refused to turn the gun over he would be arrested on the spot and likely a search warrant or consent from another legal residence would have been obtained. It is not a conversation to have since he went back to the gun and decided to engage the police with it.

The police would not have to leave the guy there with his guns to obtain a warrant to arrest him. The crime (failing to comply with the court order to surrender firearms) is committed in their presence and he can be arrested on scene without a warrant.

Bingo.

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ironpony · Dec 8, 2018

If the flagged person is killed does the erpo still stand and firearms taken from said person/body?
Has the GB family received their firearms back yet? 14 days and the guy is no longer irate/a threat.

Who has the kahunas to file a FOI request, or 118. At ~100 per month being served, MD should be gun free before long

Allen65 · Dec 8, 2018

ironpony said:
Who has the kahunas to file a FOI request, or 118. At ~100 per month being served, MD should be gun free before long

File away, but it won't result in much. The law explicitly requires that the court seal the ERPO
complaint records and not release them, including upon subpoena, except "upon good cause".

I'm curious how the no subpoena portion of that state law will hold up against a request from a Federal court.

daNattyFatty · Dec 8, 2018

Allen65 said:
File away, but it won't result in much. The law explicitly requires that the court seal the ERPO
complaint records and not release them, including upon subpoena, except "upon good cause".

I'm curious how the no subpoena portion of that state law will hold up against a request from a Federal court.

Maybe so, but police reports will be available, along with documentation on the guns/ammo seized and if/when they are released.

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PapiBarcelona · Dec 8, 2018

[YT]Vt7S_4RNUUo[/YT]

ironpony · Dec 8, 2018

Allen65 said:
File away, but it won't result in much. The law explicitly requires that the court seal the ERPO
complaint records and not release them, including upon subpoena, except "upon good cause".

I'm curious how the no subpoena portion of that state law will hold up against a request from a Federal court.

Is the entire shooting/killing/confiscation sealed? and no one will ever know who filed the complaint leading to a "gun related killing". Hasn't the family stated the GB guy would never hurt anyone? A normal family dispute. Denmark.

Not questioning you Allen , just curious ... where'd I set my coffee ...

RepublicOfFranklin · Dec 8, 2018

So the Bar wants this massively expanded bc it only targets a demographic they don’t care for. A convenient way to quickly rid MD of people they don’t care for, and able to be done well before any higher court can get involved.

This is no different than the other times MD has viewed the Constitution as an impediment to what it wants, and the excuses for those carrying it out are always the same.

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Allen65 · Dec 8, 2018

ironpony said:
Is the entire shooting/killing/confiscation sealed? and no one will ever know who filed the complaint leading to a "gun related killing". Hasn't the family stated the GB guy would never hurt anyone? A normal family dispute. Denmark.

Not questioning you Allen , just curious ... where'd I set my coffee ...

I'd guess the scope of the seal would be up to the individual judge, absent a clarifying precedent by the Court of Appeals. Maybe one of our MDS resident lawyers can interpret that part of the statute for us.

Jim12 · Dec 8, 2018

Allen65 said:
File away, but it won't result in much. The law explicitly requires that the court seal the ERPO
complaint records and not release them, including upon subpoena, except "upon good cause".

I'm curious how the no subpoena portion of that state law will hold up against a request from a Federal court.

And, for whose protection could that possibly be?

The accused has the right to face his accuser, so that's not likely. HIPAA records, if any, could remain sealed without the other proceedings being secret.

It might be be that the State is protecting itself from inquiry.

Star Chamber?

Hopefully those who have been unjustly made targets and victims of the law would be willing to tell their stories. In court. But most probably don't want to exacerbate already-strained family relationships by pointing the finger back at triggered family members and others in their lives who might continue to make trouble.

This law is like something out of the playbooks of Lenin, Stalin, and Mao. Preach gun control and that all guns are bad, pit family members against one another and create a powerful tool that is prone to abuse, then have the "State" save the day by disarming the population. In secret proceedings.

whistlersmother · Dec 8, 2018

Lenin, Stalin, Mao? You forgot Weimer and Hitler.

Having family turn in a non-PC person for secret proceedings, not available for court review, is right out of the Nazi Gestapo playbook.

Read "Gun Control in The Third Reich"

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fred55 · Dec 8, 2018

RepublicOfFranklin said:
So the Bar wants this massively expanded bc it only targets a demographic they don’t care for. A convenient way to quickly rid MD of people they don’t care for, and able to be done well before any higher court can get involved.

This is no different than the other times MD has viewed the Constitution as an impediment to what it wants, and the excuses for those carrying it out are always the same.

Maryland’s government representatives disregard for the Constitution is a large reason we left. Taxes and “sanctuary” cities/counties/state were additional reasons. fred55

Allen65 · Dec 8, 2018

Jim12 said:
And, for whose protection could that possibly be?

The accused has the right to face his accuser, so that's not likely.

In a criminal case, yes. But ERPO is a civil action. Much more relaxed rules of evidence and fewer protections for the defendant, or "respondant" actually, in this civil action.

This is the text of the law:
5-602. (C) (1) ALL COURT RECORDS RELATING TO A PETITION FOR AN EXTREME RISK PROTECTIVE ORDER MADE UNDER THIS SUBTITLE ARE CONFIDENTIAL AND THE CONTENTS MAY NOT BE DIVULGED, BY SUBPOENA OR OTHERWISE, EXCEPT BY ORDER OF THE COURT ON GOOD CAUSE SHOWN.

"All" is pretty clear. And from what I understand, "Good Cause" is a high standard to meet.
I'd also like to hear from any of the attorneys on this forum about whether the 5A right not to testify against yourself is valid in a civil action like an ERPO hearing.

Just like civil seizures, use of civil proceedings for ERPO is a defacto end run, by the State, around BOR protections provided to defendants in a criminal case. Yes, it's legal. But it's not right and it's a subversion of the intent of the BOR to protect people from abuse of governmental power.

Rack&Roll · Dec 8, 2018

Allen65 said:
In a criminal case, yes. But ERPO is a civil action. Much more relaxed rules of evidence and fewer protections for the defendant, or "respondant" actually, in this civil action.

This is the text of the law:
5-602. (C) (1) ALL COURT RECORDS RELATING TO A PETITION FOR AN EXTREME RISK PROTECTIVE ORDER MADE UNDER THIS SUBTITLE ARE CONFIDENTIAL AND THE CONTENTS MAY NOT BE DIVULGED, BY SUBPOENA OR OTHERWISE, EXCEPT BY ORDER OF THE COURT ON GOOD CAUSE SHOWN.

"All" is pretty clear. And from what I understand, "Good Cause" is a high standard to meet.
I'd also like to hear from any of the attorneys on this forum about whether the 5A right not to testify against yourself is valid in a civil action like an ERPO hearing.

Just like civil seizures, use of civil proceedings for ERPO is a defacto end run, by the State, around BOR protections provided to defendants in a criminal case. Yes, it's legal. But it's not right.

No, it’s not legal. They are doing it until judges that respect Due Process tell them the actions violate our rights.

Allen65 · Dec 8, 2018

Rack&Roll said:
No, it’s not legal. They are doing it until judges that respect Due Process tell them the actions violate our rights.

Hopefully SCOTUS will reign in government (ab)use of civil actions in Timbs vs Indiana. Until that happens, remember, you're in Maryland and have the right to comply, and to believe what MGA and MDAG direct you to believe.

Rack&Roll · Dec 8, 2018

Allen65 said:
Hopefully SCOTUS will reign in government (ab)use of civil actions in Timbs vs Indiana. Until that happens, remember, you're in Maryland and have the right to comply, and to believe what MGA and MDAG direct you to believe.

I will not comply.

manderson · Dec 8, 2018

Make no mistake. This is the beginning of firearm confiscation.

Allen65 · Dec 8, 2018

manderson said:
Make no mistake. This is the beginning of firearm confiscation.

I thought the beginning was the National Firearms Act of 1934? We're somewhere in the middle now, gathering momentum.

ironpony · Dec 8, 2018

Yup, they are winning. Or can it be that they have won?

Things seem to be worse under a Trump admin than the obama admin. When does Trump get his bumpstock infringement. I'm not knocking Trump but ...

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