A visit from the Maryland State Police

Brooklyn · Sep 13, 2013

hvymax said:
No the worst is they find you in violation of the law and charge you with an exclusionary offense and take all of your guns.

No the worst is that they kill you and kidnap your dog..
Or is that kill the dog and kidnap you...

Get a lawyer if you are involved with hbars.

You can't voluntarily register it without admitting to an offense if you all are right about the law. So you need a lawyer.

See the problem. Worse if you register because " its not a true hbar" you have established intent.

I do not have any idea what the law requires at this point so I will seek council. Then I will follow councils advice.

Dan_Br · Sep 13, 2013

Brooklyn said:
No the worst is that they kill you and kidnap your dog..
Or is that kill the dog and kidnap you...

Get a lawyer if you are involved with hbars.

You can't voluntarily register it without admitting to an offense if you all are right about the law. So you need a lawyer.

See the problem. Worse if you register because " its not a true hbar" you have established intent.

I do not have any idea what the law requires at this point so I will seek council. Then I will follow councils advice.

Could you make room for a PM. It says your stored folder is full.
Thanks
dan

Brooklyn · Sep 13, 2013

Dan_Br said:
Could you make room for a PM. It says your stored folder is full.
Thanks
dan

OK. But I am not a lawyer .....

ObsceneJesster · Sep 13, 2013

Brooklyn said:
No the worst is that they kill you and kidnap your dog..
Or is that kill the dog and kidnap you...

Get a lawyer if you are involved with hbars.

You can't voluntarily register it without admitting to an offense if you all are right about the law. So you need a lawyer.

See the problem. Worse if you register because " its not a true hbar" you have established intent.

I do not have any idea what the law requires at this point so I will seek council. Then I will follow councils advice.

Why are you admitting to a criminal offense by doing a voluntary registration. You don't need to give the MSP a reason why you are registering it. You just walk in, tell them you would like to register a rifle with the state, give them their $10 and walk out.

Wraith · Sep 13, 2013

Isn't two other names for this tactic, coercion, and extortion?

Brooklyn · Sep 13, 2013

ObsceneJesster said:
Why are you admitting to a criminal offense by doing a voluntary registration. You don't need to give the MSP a reason why you are registering it. You just walk in, tell them you would like to register a rifle with the state, give them their $10 and walk out.

They will see the gun. They will know about this forum. They will k ow that we know about the recent msp home visits.

They may ask questions. If you are questioned what will.you do?

Now they may not ask questions. I am thinking that if we do not panic we can have someone intervene on our behalf and make sure that, to the extent their is a change in policy, and we as law biding citizen chose to comply nothing we do or say can be used against us. I am thinking this can be arranged...

Now I do not even now know if their has been a change of policy.all we know is that some msp officers have mad some statements. They may or may not be correct...

Say vigilant.... but nothing gets better when you panic...

smokering · Sep 13, 2013

If they are going to rewrite and interpret the law as they go along it is null and void; this is nothing but a setup for progressive confiscation.
They already know who has regulated weapons even without registration because of the 77R, now this is a way for them to place the unregulated
(evil black) long guns in the same database. The way things are transpiring airsoft will be a distant memory in 10 years.

Passive peaceful resistance at home not compliance is what is going to be needed in some cases,
and a step up collecting a data backed counter with media attention to turn up the heat on the liars behind this.

psucobra96 · Sep 13, 2013

I think this is a way for them to say hey, the laws unclear so why don't you all just register the rifles and we won't take them.........for now.

Ab_Normal · Sep 13, 2013

psucobra96 said:
I think this is a way for them to say hey, the laws unclear so why don't you all just register the rifles and we won't take them.........for now.

On the contrary, the law is quite clear - "...the right to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed'.

"This Constitution, and the Laws of the United States which shall be made in Pursuance thereof; and all Treaties made, or which shall be made, under the Authority of the United States, shall be the supreme Law of the Land; and the Judges in every State shall be bound thereby, any Thing in the Constitution or Laws of any State to the Contrary notwithstanding."

hvymax · Sep 13, 2013

smokering said:
If they are going to rewrite and interpret the law as they go along it is null and void; this is nothing but a setup for progressive confiscation.
They already know who has regulated weapons even without registration because of the 77R, now this is a way for them to place the unregulated
(evil black) long guns in the same database. The way things are transpiring airsoft will be a distant memory in 10 years.

Passive peaceful resistance at home not compliance is what is going to be needed in some cases,
and a step up collecting a data backed counter with media attention to turn up the heat on the liars behind this.

Time for a group fishing trip on an 8" PVC pontoon boat. I have no doubt at this point about the States intentions. It has started in California and will be here in a few weeks. They are starting in the safe liberal states what will be happening nationwide soon.

Ab_Normal · Sep 13, 2013

hvymax said:
Time for a group fishing trip on an 8" PVC pontoon boat. I have no doubt at this point about the States intentions. It has started in California and will be here in a few weeks. They are starting in the safe liberal states what will be happening nationwide soon.

WWCTS? (What Would Colonel Trautman Say?)

clarkcondor · Sep 13, 2013

Here is more background info from 2010:
http://www.mdshooters.com/showthread.php?t=44602

There is precedence.

hvymax · Sep 13, 2013

clarkcondor said:
Here is more background info from 2010:
http://www.mdshooters.com/showthread.php?t=44602

There is precedence.

Of course this has nothing to do with these cases where people bought unrestricted C&C rifles before their visit by OMoney's Gestapo.

clarkcondor · Sep 13, 2013

Brooklyn said:
Look there is no way only colts will.be exempt. This is an equal protection issue. They may define hbar to be more specific thanks in part to noise on this forum.

It appears more complex. If I recall correctly, Colt built a specific model HBAR with very specific features to meet criteria for an exemption back in late 1980s. Perhaps it has not been strictly interpreted by the letter of the law but it seems that may be changing. Parallels may be seen in other patents which may last a long time or name brand medications which have some period of protection from generics.

Brooklyn · Sep 13, 2013

clarkcondor said:
It appears more complex. HBAR is trademarked and refers to a model built by Colt with very specific features to meet criteria for an exemption back in late 1980s. Other manufacturers may have submitted for exemptions but apparently no others were accepted. Perhaps it has not been strictly interpreted by the letter of the law but it seems that may be changing. Parallels may be seen in other patents which may last a long time or name brand medications which have some period of protection from generics.

Yes I aware of some, but not all of this. Now they are as well.

Now consider this. If neither the msp nor the mga were aware of this then they could not have been relying on it when they made the law. Now for many years the law has been interpreted one way and now with in the year they suddenly remembered what they really meant in what was it 1996?I forget. Do you think its an accident?

Even better do you think it matters? The mga has known about the published opinion of the Msp for some time. If they had any issue with it they had amble time to speak. They had many legilstive sessions in which to do do so. They did not.

Indeed,the lastest bill makes major changes and yet It does not correct or clarify this issue.. interesting.

Now this colt issue was never challenged because the fed awb had a ten year sunset clause and the case may have been mooted even before it got to scotus. But that was then. This is now

If colt licences the IP no problem if not its game on. There are several small shops in Md right now that have standing...

Now I am sure the chatter here has done much to help ensure a near total ban on ar-15 in MD. THIS WAS NOT THE ANTIS. THIS WAS A SELF INFICTED WOUND.

Oh well,I got mine.

But for the sake of the next time can we learn from this.

Its better to be smart than to be right.

OK

We win by being smart. Not by doing right.

fabsroman · Sep 13, 2013

clarkcondor said:
It appears more complex. If I recall correctly, Colt built a specific model HBAR with very specific features to meet criteria for an exemption back in late 1980s. Perhaps it has not been strictly interpreted by the letter of the law but it seems that may be changing. Parallels may be seen in other patents which may last a long time or name brand medications which have some period of protection from generics.

Don't quote me on this (i.e., do your own research), but I believe patents are only good for 14 years. So, if Colt patented this thing back in 1989, the patent is long gone. If others are stamping their receivers with HBAR, the trademark life is probably over too. Either that or Colt doesn't feel like suing them to prevent the use.

Brooklyn · Sep 14, 2013

fabsroman said:
Don't quote me on this (i.e., do your own research), but I believe patents are only good for 14 years. So, if Colt patented this thing back in 1989, the patent is long gone. If others are stamping their receivers with HBAR, the trademark life is probably over too. Either that or Colt doesn't feel like suing them to prevent the use.

From wikpedia as staring point.

Year Validity
[Years]
-1789 -
1790–1835 14
1836–1860 21
1861–1994 17
1995- 20

But colt has not made this in years, its value outside of MD would be nil..

Good chance it can be licensed bought out right. Or if they want to make a splash Licensed to anyone and, all royalties donated to pro gun groups...

marko12 · Sep 14, 2013

fabsroman said:
lol - you aren't in a position to concede anything until you are in Court. Yeah, we can all talk the talk, but until you get charged and are in Court, you can take the position that SB281 is unconsitutional, taxes are unconstitutional, etc. Things change when the MSP, ATF, IRS, etc. are knocking at the door.

Me, I am not pushing the envelope on anything. I'll abide by what the MSP says until this all gets figured out in Court. Wonder what happens if people get charged and jailed on some of this stuff and then it is determined to be unconstitutional down the road when somebody else decides to take it through the appeal process.

I believe the Voice of Reason has spoken and spoken well.

pilotguy299 · Sep 14, 2013

Has anyone ever emailed the head of the licensing division and asked if copies of a hbar are regulated?

Ab_Normal · Sep 14, 2013

pilotguy299 said:
Has anyone ever emailed the head of the licensing division and asked if copies of a hbar are regulated?

Why? Just read the law for yourself - they are not.

A visit from the Maryland State Police

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