Transporting

swinokur · Aug 5, 2012

If your origin and destination are both in MD you do not have to lock up anything. Unloaded in an enclosed case or holster is legal if involved in one of the allowed activities.

Under FOPA, a vehicle with no trunk the firearm OR the ammunition must be in a locked container. Not both unless you want to.

I have a Jeep Grand Cherokee and use a Gunvault travel safe to lock my firearm.

FOPA Title 18 USC SS 926A:

Notwithstanding any other provision of any law or any rule or regulation of a State or any political subdivision thereof, any person who is not otherwise prohibited by this chapter from transporting, shipping, or receiving a firearm shall be entitled to transport a firearm for any lawful purpose from any place where he may lawfully possess and carry such firearm to any other place where he may lawfully possess and carry such firearm if, during such transportation the firearm is unloaded, and neither the firearm nor any ammunition being transported is readily accessible or is directly accessible from the passenger compartment of such transporting vehicle: Provided, That in the case of a vehicle without a compartment separate from the driver’s compartment the firearm OR ammunition shall be contained in a locked container other than the glove compartment or console.

IANAL

jonnyl · Aug 5, 2012

LJPete said:
What about sport utility vehicles? Would you treat these the same as trucks since they don't really have a lockable trunk? While the tailgate is lockable the soft tonoe cover hardly limits access to the cargo area, is it still considered a lockable trunk? Normally, I would keep the ammo in a seperate container in the back seat floor and the rifle in a case (not locked) in the trunk area. Do I need to place a lock on my case or rifle bag to be compliant? Does the ammo also need to be in the trunk are or is the back seat floor OK (in its own metal ammo box)?

Like Mr H notes above, don't forget that the handgun transport restrictions don't apply to rifles.

Most folks recommend going as far above and beyond the law as practical to avoid any issues. But technically, you could have your uncased rifle in the passenger seat next to you and have a bunch of loaded mags sitting on the seat with it.

Good idea? Probably not. Illegal? no.

In fact the only law that seems to keep you from driving around with the rifle loaded is a hunting regulation.

Anyway, I'm not a lawyer and it's prudent to keep things buttoned up and out of sight.

Good luck!

Andras · Aug 5, 2012

LJPete said:
What about sport utility vehicles? Would you treat these the same as trucks since they don't really have a lockable trunk? While the tailgate is lockable the soft tonoe cover hardly limits access to the cargo area, is it still considered a lockable trunk? Normally, I would keep the ammo in a seperate container in the back seat floor and the rifle in a case (not locked) in the trunk area. Do I need to place a lock on my case or rifle bag to be compliant? Does the ammo also need to be in the trunk are or is the back seat floor OK (in its own metal ammo box)?

§ 10-410. Restrictions on hunting wildlife generally [Amendment subject to abrogation].

(c) Hunting from vehicles.-

(1) A person may not shoot at any species of wildlife from an automobile or other vehicle or, except as provided in § 4-203(b) of the Criminal Law Article and Title 5, Subtitle 3 of the Public Safety Article, possess in or on an automobile or other vehicle a loaded handgun or shotgun, or a rifle containing any ammunition in the magazine or chamber.

Minuteman · Aug 5, 2012

Andras said:
§ 10-410. Restrictions on hunting wildlife generally [Amendment subject to abrogation].

(c) Hunting from vehicles.-

(1) A person may not shoot at any species of wildlife from an automobile or other vehicle or, except as provided in § 4-203(b) of the Criminal Law Article and Title 5, Subtitle 3 of the Public Safety Article, possess in or on an automobile or other vehicle a loaded handgun or shotgun, or a rifle containing any ammunition in the magazine or chamber.

Yes. The history of where the 'myth' of you can't have 'loaded magazines' in your car; seems to originate from this hunting restriction. This was thoroughly discussed at the hunters safety class I attended earlier this year. I'm now convinced that this is how the 'rumor' got started. The intent of the regulation is that you don't have bullets in a hunting rifle that has a built-in internal only magazine. That constitutes a 'loaded firearm' even without having a round in the chamber.

Wasn't going to mention this, but since this topic keeps coming up and Andras posted the actual code; I thought I'd add my 2cents. I am not aware of anyone that has ever been charged with having a separate detached magazine with rounds in it. Please post link if anyone can show otherwise. I also carry a copy of the letter (previously linked in this thread) in my car, just incase someone repeats the myth of loaded magazines being considered a 'loaded gun'.

The laws are already complicated enough, we don't need to make it any worse.

Stay safe.

esqappellate · Aug 5, 2012

swinokur said:
If your origin and destination are both in MD you do not have to lock up anything. Unloaded in an enclosed case or holster is legal if involved in one of the allowed activities.

Under FOPA, a vehicle with no trunk the firearm OR the ammunition must be in a locked container. Not both unless you want to.

I have a Jeep Grand Cherokee and use a Gunvault travel safe to lock my firearm.

FOPA Title 18 USC SS 926A:

IANAL

I would be careful with that. The prior sentence of 926A clearly requires BOTH the ammo and the firearm to be in the trunk, inaccessible to passengers, if the vehicle has a trunk. The use of the disjunctive "OR" in the following sentence does suggest that *either* the gun *or* the ammo be locked in a vehicle with no trunk. But,I think that is a mistaken reading of sloppy language and, when you think about it, makes no sense in terms of the statutory objective of making the firearm and the ammo inaccessible, as required with vehicles with trunks. It would be odd to believe that Congress wanted to have *more* accessibility in vehicles without trunks than with vehicles with trunks. Better practice is to lock up BOTH the ammo and the gun separately in a vehicle without a trunk, thus making *both* inaccessible in much the same way they are inaccessible in the prior sentence. That eliminates room for an overzealous LEO to claim that you didn't comply with 926A, which is, after all, an affirmative defense that legalizes conduct that would have otherwise been a crime under a state's law.

swinokur · Aug 5, 2012

If the intent is to prevent the use of the firearm, wouldn't either a locked a firearm or ammo render it "iunusable" and unlocking one or the other would then make it useable, just like unlocking a trunk where both firearm and ammo are now "accessible and usable by unlocking one lock?

I think that's the intent. Locking up both in the trunk or either in a vehicle with no trunk makes the firearm unusable. The trunk makes it extra secure because both can be locked.

esqappellate · Aug 5, 2012

swinokur said:
If the intent is to prevent the use of the firearm, wouldn't either a locked a firearm or ammo render it "iunusable" and unlocking one or the other would then make it useable, just like unlocking a trunk where both firearm and ammo are now "accessible and usable by unlocking one lock?

I think that's the intent. Locking up both in the trunk or either in a vehicle with no trunk makes the firearm unusable. The trunk makes it extra secure because both can be locked.

Yes, of course, a firearm is useless without ammo. But the prior sentence does the overkill by requiring both the ammo and the gun in the trunk. Stopping the car and opening the trunk provides access, true. But that is a lot more work than just reaching into the back seat and grabbing an unlocked firearm where the ammo is the only thing that locked up. If only the ammo needs to locked and your gun is just sitting there, you may be inviting unwanted LEO attention and skepticism when you claim your 926A affirmative defense. Would you win at trial? Maybe, at least I hope so as the language supports that result and your very expensive counsel could cite the rule of lenity. But why would you want to spend your time and money that way.....

swinokur · Aug 5, 2012

I have to assume Congress knows the difference between BOTH and OR and understood what they were enacting. Locking both would still give you access like a trunk would.

But I'm not a congressman

:innocent0

esqappellate · Aug 5, 2012

swinokur said:
I have to assume Congress knows the difference between BOTH and OR and understood what they were enacting. Locking both would still give you access like a trunk would.

But I'm not a congressman

To your credit! (I have worked for Congressmen -- it is very disillusioning). The amount of sloppy draftsmanship that is enacted into law is amazing. In any event, this is less of an issue of statutory language and more of an issue of avoiding LEO hassles.

LJPete · Aug 5, 2012

swinokur said:
If your origin and destination are both in MD you do not have to lock up anything. Unloaded in an enclosed case or holster is legal if involved in one of the allowed activities.

Under FOPA, a vehicle with no trunk the firearm OR the ammunition must be in a locked container. Not both unless you want to.

I have a Jeep Grand Cherokee and use a Gunvault travel safe to lock my firearm.

FOPA Title 18 USC SS 926A:

IANAL

I too have a Grand Cherokee and will consider the gun vault travel safe for use. But for the time being, will lock both seperate containers (ammo and rifle/pistol) in the cargo area with the cargo cover in the closed position for future use as a frequently shoot at the NRA thus transporting to VA.

Thanks for information,

huesmann · Aug 6, 2012

Andras said:
§ 10-410. Restrictions on hunting wildlife generally [Amendment subject to abrogation].

(c) Hunting from vehicles.-

(1) A person may not shoot at any species of wildlife from an automobile or other vehicle or, except as provided in § 4-203(b) of the Criminal Law Article and Title 5, Subtitle 3 of the Public Safety Article, possess in or on an automobile or other vehicle a loaded handgun or shotgun, or a rifle containing any ammunition in the magazine or chamber.

What if you're hunting speed cameras? :lol2:

booker · Aug 6, 2012

Would walking around with a stripped lower AR receiver (a block of aluminum) in your jacket pocket be considered carrying concealed by MSP/BAFTE?

lx1x · Aug 6, 2012

booker said:
Would walking around with a stripped lower AR receiver (a block of aluminum) in your jacket pocket be considered carrying concealed by MSP/BAFTE?

Highly doubt it but been wrong before. Unless it funtion as a firearm. Ie. Trigger, barrel etc.

swinokur · Aug 6, 2012

BATFE has no authority over state carry laws

Transporting

The #1 community for Gun Owners of the Northeast

Member Benefits:

swinokur

In a State of Bliss

jonnyl

Ultimate Member

Andras

Active Member

Minuteman

Member

esqappellate

President, MSI

swinokur

In a State of Bliss

esqappellate

President, MSI

swinokur

In a State of Bliss

esqappellate

President, MSI

LJPete

Active Member

huesmann

n00b

booker

Active Member

lx1x

Peanut Gallery

swinokur

In a State of Bliss

Users who are viewing this thread

Latest posts

Forum statistics

Latest threads

Forum statistics

Share this page