Are dealers ripping us off on transfer fees?

Last November, I transferred two handguns through my local gun shop, where I have done business for more than 20 years. The fee was $45 for each transfer, plus the $10 MSP fee.

Today, I called that same dealer to see if they had a particular pistol in stock, or if they could order it. They advised that they didn't have it and couldn't get it, but would transfer it if I bought it online. The fee, however, is now $75!

I talked two more dealers, and got the same response: They can't get the pistol, but they will do the transfer for $75. One dealer reminded me that in addition to that fee, I will need to cough up $10 for MSP, and $35 for an Omega Lock.

Apparently, the laws of supply and demand don't govern just guns, but dealer services as well. I hope these dealers are proud of themselves...and I hope they remember the ill will they've generated when all the current hysteria fades.

I always make it a point to buy something, anything, anytime I am in a local gun shop, even if it's only a box of .22 ammo, in order to support small businesses. Never again. The internet is chock-full of merchants who will deliver ammo and gun-related products to my door, often at a lower cost.

Can anyone recommend a dealer who will handle a handgun transfer without gouging? Thanks.

Overhead actually costs something. Start your own shop and set your own prices.

Your topic would collect better responses if you simply said you cant justify or afford paying the higher Transfer Fees and want imput on more budget minded locations. List what you feel is fair and see if anyone offers that price.


No such thing as Gouging.

Most dealers are trying to discourage it because they are overloaded with transfers and/or regular sales. They are forced to stockpile hundreds of guns waiting on paperwork. Storing those guns securely costs good money. Many dealers are not accepting transfers at all.

Rummage around in the Industry Partner Section. They have their transfer prices listed there. From the sampling I just did, they look lower than the price you were given,

Keep in mind with the MSP delays, dealers now have 3 months worth of sold guns to hold onto instead of the usual 7 days worth. You're not so much paying more for the transfer as you are paying for the space your gun will occupy in his safe while you wait.

clandestine said:

Overhead actually costs something. Start your own shop and set your own prices.


No such thing as Gouging.

Click to expand...

How much does a regulated transfer application cost a dealer out of pocket? Meaning for each transfer application, not the licenses.

How much do the licenses cost?

Another thing to consider is the record keeping, the 4473 needs to be kept on file for 20 years. Thats a long term risk to consider.


PART 478: COMMERCE IN FIREARMS AND AMMUNITION

Subpart H: Records

478.129 - Record retention.

(a) Records prior to Act. Licensed importers and licensed manufacturers may dispose of records of sale or other disposition of firearms prior to December 16, 1968. Licensed dealers and licensed collectors may dispose of all records of firearms transactions that occurred prior to December 16, 1968.

(b) Firearms transaction record. Licensees shall retain each Form 4473 and Form 4473(LV) for a period of not less than 20 years after the date of sale or disposition. Where a licensee has initiated a NICS check for a proposed firearms transaction, but the sale, delivery, or transfer of the firearm is not made, the licensee shall record any transaction number on the Form 4473, and retain the Form 4473 for a period of not less than 5 years after the date of the NICS inquiry. Forms 4473 shall be retained in the licensee's records as provided in ? 478.124(b): Provided, That Forms 4473 with respect to which a sale, delivery or transfer did not take place shall be separately retained in alphabetical (by name of transferee) or chronological (by date of transferee's certification) order.

blindnoodle said:

How much does a regulated transfer application cost a dealer out of pocket? Meaning for each transfer application, not the licenses.

How much do the licenses cost?

Click to expand...

I cant answer for other shops because I dont know what they pay for the following:


Attorney Consultation/Retainers
Income/Business/Property Taxes
Rent/Property
Safes/Secure Storage
Data/Paperwork Backup
Labor Costs
Bank Loans
Insurance
Medical Insurance/Unemployment/Disability/Benefits
Utilities
Supplies
Advertising
Business Licenses
Business Services


To claim a business is price is gouging without knowing a business owners expenses/investment is unfair and dishonest to the core.

blindnoodle said:

How much does a regulated transfer application cost a dealer out of pocket? Meaning for each transfer application, not the licenses.

How much do the licenses cost?

Click to expand...

Get an 01 FFL, rent shop space, and find out firsthand. Time spent on a transfer is time lost with other customers. That costs money in terms of both overhead and opportunity loss/cost. All transactions cost a business owner money. Business owners stay in business by keeping their income stream and prices as high above costs (including overhead) as the market will bear. What some people consider expensive might be a good deal to plenty of other folks. It's all a matter of perspective.

Many of these dealers are sitting on inventory that the customer is barely paying anything on because they know they will not be getting the firearm in 8 days . The dealers have to pay for these firearms they are sitting on for us in full , the vendors do not care about what is going on in MD they want their money .

Not to mention the extra storage dealers have had to buy to secure all these firearms . They don't like it anymore then we do . If you think the dealers are making a killing right now you are sadly mistaken and after OCT1st they likely won't be making a damned thing and many will probably have to close up shop .

You want a service , they can provide it but you have to pay to play .

Beemerguy said:

Last November, I transferred two handguns through my local gun shop, where I have done business for more than 20 years. The fee was $45 for each transfer, plus the $10 MSP fee.

Today, I called that same dealer to see if they had a particular pistol in stock, or if they could order it. They advised that they didn't have it and couldn't get it, but would transfer it if I bought it online. The fee, however, is now $75!

I talked two more dealers, and got the same response: They can't get the pistol, but they will do the transfer for $75. One dealer reminded me that in addition to that fee, I will need to cough up $10 for MSP, and $35 for an Omega Lock.

Apparently, the laws of supply and demand don't govern just guns, but dealer services as well. I hope these dealers are proud of themselves...and I hope they remember the ill will they've generated when all the current hysteria fades.

I always make it a point to buy something, anything, anytime I am in a local gun shop, even if it's only a box of .22 ammo, in order to support small businesses. Never again. The internet is chock-full of merchants who will deliver ammo and gun-related products to my door, often at a lower cost.

Can anyone recommend a dealer who will handle a handgun transfer without gouging? Thanks.

Click to expand...

My FFL charges the same rate as before, and if you have a bore lock they wont force you to buy one. I know what is costs to run a business and i dont think it should be a factor in raising the rate if they charged $45+$10 in november. It is times like this you find out who respects your business. I also support our local dealers, but it looks like some dealers dont support us. My dealer stopped transfer long guns for a while but know they release on 10th day so its not a problem.

I'm anything but made of money right now but I won't personally condemn a dealer in the state of Maryland who has decided to raise the rates.

As a consumer in this state, we're frustrated, angry, confused and perhaps worried about how, where, when, and if we're going to be able to purchase or receive our next firearm but that guy has to worry about how, where, when, and if he's going to be able to keep putting food on the table if/when the tightening laws of this state run him out of business.

The way I see it, he's got more skin in the game than I do and I'm damn glad there are still some around to do transfers or sales at all.

rico903 said:

So last year $45 was enough to cover that and now it takes $75 from the same dealers? And when did the cost of locks go from $20 to $35? I'd like to see their invoice. I'll stick with my usual places that are in it for the service and a reasonable profit.

Click to expand...

I know of shops that had to rent storage space to be able to safely store the firearms. Theres an incurred cost and risk with that. Some simply stopped taking transfers, some raised the rates to slow the volume due to the volume/space issues.

MD Compliant Locks have been VERY hard to find recently. Some MD dealers here were even offering to buy them second hand or buy them from sources that dont give any dealer or quantity discounts.

Last year half of the dealers probably didnt think they would be out of business soon either.

Fair enough response. Covered some things I hadn't thought of. I'll stand corrected in most cases.

Thanks everyone for your replies.

I am a capitalist, and I subscribe to the idea that you should be able to charge what the market will bear for a product or service you provide. If a dealer wants to charge $200 for a transfer, and people are willing to pay that price, so be it. And if I am not willing to pay that price, I don't have to do business there.

BUT....

I am also entitled to the opinion that a dealer who has raised his transfer prices significantly in the last seven months is gouging his customers. And I am entitled to ask if anyone knows of a place that doesn't charge what I consider to be exorbitant transfer fees.

Beemerguy said:

Last November, I transferred two handguns through my local gun shop, where I have done business for more than 20 years. The fee was $45 for each transfer, plus the $10 MSP fee.

Today, I called that same dealer to see if they had a particular pistol in stock, or if they could order it. They advised that they didn't have it and couldn't get it, but would transfer it if I bought it online. The fee, however, is now $75!

I talked two more dealers, and got the same response: They can't get the pistol, but they will do the transfer for $75. One dealer reminded me that in addition to that fee, I will need to cough up $10 for MSP, and $35 for an Omega Lock.

Apparently, the laws of supply and demand don't govern just guns, but dealer services as well. I hope these dealers are proud of themselves...and I hope they remember the ill will they've generated when all the current hysteria fades.

I always make it a point to buy something, anything, anytime I am in a local gun shop, even if it's only a box of .22 ammo, in order to support small businesses. Never again. The internet is chock-full of merchants who will deliver ammo and gun-related products to my door, often at a lower cost.

Can anyone recommend a dealer who will handle a handgun transfer without gouging? Thanks.

Click to expand...

Dude, your getting ripped royal
T've paid as little as $25 in the NE MD Shops, havent done one lately but I'm sure someone can point you in a good direction. Check with the Dealears that are Md Shooters members and throw your money thier way. On top of that Rip you are looking at Retail Prices on line but the Dealer is paying Wholesale so yo are getting a double wammie.
Drop that Dealer ASAP and go to someone who will work with you on price.
Man $75 plus wholesale pricing, that stinks.
Eddie O

And by the way read the following to all the responses you got about the Po Dealer being forced into all of this cost for long time storage and paperwork. fact is he has no more paperwork than an instore sale and a phone call to the Distributer which are the same folks I by my C&R from. under law the Dealer can release the gun to you in 7 days, same as if he had it in stock. Don't believe that crap you are reading about the Po Dealer and all his overhead in a transfer, read it in black and white and ignor all this storage cost nonsence.
Eddie O

ASSOCIATED GUN CLUBS OF BALTIMORE, INC.

LEGISLATIVE REPORT - JUNE 21, 2013
P.O. BOX 20102 - TOWSON, MD 21284-0102
410-296-3947 Email: LVP@ASSOCIATEDGUNCLUBS.ORG




Dear Edward,



We are pleased to announce a successful outcome in the 77R lawsuit due to the combined efforts of AGC, Maryland Licensed Firearms Dealers Association (MLFDA) and MSI. We can now move forward to address other issues.


Legal battles are costly, but so are election campaigns. You can help us avoid future legal battles by helping elect good candidates in the 2014 Election Campaigns. Support Take Back Maryland.



Take Back Maryland, a new statewide Political Action Committee (PAC), was formed as means to enable Maryland gun owners to raise the necessary funds to support Pro-2nd Amendment candidates in the 2014 Election.


NOTE: New list members can view previous emails in our email Archives. Click here.


John H. Josselyn

Legislative Vice President


New in this edition:
77R Litigation Successful
77R Litigation Updated Documents
Maryland State Police Advisory Bulletin to Dealers
ATF 2012 Report Summary - Firearms Lost and Stolen from Dealers
Senator Brochin's Letter on the 2012 Session
TAKE BACK MARYLAND PAC

77R Litigation Successful - MSP Agrees that Dealers Can Release Guns



We filed a lawsuit against Maryland State Police because Maryland citizens were not being cleared by Maryland State Police to receive their purchased regulated firearms within the seven days required by law. Maryland State Police's processing time had become greater than 60 days. Maryland State Police had not provided any formal or informal guidance to sellers on whether they could release firearms after the seven day waiting period. Marylanders were waiting months to obtain handguns they had purchased for protection in their homes.



In our complaint, we requested a declaration that sellers of regulated firearms could transfer after seven days. Maryland State Police and the Maryland Attorney General have conceded this point. In binding legal statements filed to avoid our lawsuit, the State of Maryland has declared its position, never voiced officially prior to this lawsuit and contrary to many prior unofficial statements, that regulated firearms transfers are permissible after the seven-day waiting period and will not be punished.



What's more, Maryland State Police has advised the Court in a sworn statent that it already is gearing up with more personnel to deal with the backlog of applications more effectively. This lawsuit already has sped that process. Based on the State of Maryland's official statements binding themselves before the Court in this lawsuit through the Maryland State Police and the Maryland Attorney General, we have accomplished our goal with this lawsuit.



Accordingly, we have instructed legal counsel to withdraw our lawsuit without prejudice to our refiling should Maryland State Police not live up to their promises to the Citizens of Maryland.



77R Litigation Updated Documents



The following court documents were filed by the Attorney General on behalf of the Maryland State Police:

Defendants' Motion to Dismiss;
Defendants' Opposition to Plaintiffs' Motion for Preliminary Injunction or, in the Alternative, Declaratory Relief;
Defendants' Response to Plaintiffs' Motion to Proceed Under Fictitious Names and Bar Public Identification of Plaintiffs' Identities; and
Defendants' Response to Plaintiffs' Motion for Expedited Treatment
These documents have been added to the PDF portfolio of documents on the AGC's website.




Click here for the 77R Litigation portfolio.



Maryland State Police
Licensing Division
ADVISORY
LD-FRS-13-001


June 7, 2013


TRANSFER OF A REGULATED FIREARM COMPLIANCE ADVISORY


The Maryland State Police Licensing Division has been receiving numerous inquiries regarding the 7 day waiting period and has been asked by many of our licensed firearms dealers to provide clarity regarding a dealers' ability to release regulated firearms after the expiration of this 7 day period. This weekly advisory is being sent in an effort to provide this clarification and also provide further clarification to the advisory that was issued on May 31, 2013.

Can a Maryland firearm dealer release a regulated firearm after the 7 day waiting period expires?

Under Annotated Code of Maryland, Public Safety Article Section 5-123(a) and consistent with Code of Maryland Regulations Title 29 Section 03.01.10, a regulated firearm may be lawfully sold, leased or transferred by a licensed firearms dealer or other person after the seven-day waiting period, provided that the dealer or person has not received notice that the application has been placed on hold or disapproved by Maryland State Police (Public Safety Article Sec. 5-125(b)) and the dealer or person does not have actual knowledge or reasonable cause to believe that the recipient is disqualified from possessing a regulated firearm under
Maryland or federal law.

A dealer or person may wait until notified that Maryland State Police has completed its investigation and has no obligation or responsibility to sell, lease or transfer prior to being notified that the investigation is completed. The dealer will forward reports of sales of all regulated firearms to Maryland State Police within seven days of the completed sale (COMAR 29.03.01.09).

The Maryland State Police thanks all Maryland firearms dealers for their continued patience and continues to encourage all sellers, lessors and transferors to wait until the Maryland State Police completes its investigation, conducts all checks, and approves the sale, lease or transfer of the regulated firearm before releasing or transferring the firearm.

If I choose to release a regulated firearm after the 7 day waiting period expires how do I complete the required paperwork?

Dealers who choose to release a regulated firearm prior to the completion of a background investigation should clearly print across the top of the original "hard copy" application, under the document's title, Maryland State Police Application And Affidavit To Purchase A Regulated Firearm "EIGHTH DAY RELEASE". Once noted, the application may only be returned to the Firearms Registration Section by mail to:


Maryland State Police
Firearms Registration Section
1111 Reisterstown Road
Pikesville, MD 21208

Beemerguy said:

Thanks everyone for your replies.

I am a capitalist, and I subscribe to the idea that you should be able to charge what the market will bear for a product or service you provide. If a dealer wants to charge $200 for a transfer, and people are willing to pay that price, so be it. And if I am not willing to pay that price, I don't have to do business there.

BUT....

I am also entitled to the opinion that a dealer who has raised his transfer prices significantly in the last seven months is gouging his customers. And I am entitled to ask if anyone knows of a place that doesn't charge what I consider to be exorbitant transfer fees.

Click to expand...

If it's any help, 22lr ammunition used to cost about 3 cents a round and you could find it in the local Walmart stores. Now you can't find it and people are happily paying 10 cents a round. That's 3X what it used to cost. By comparison of your example, FFL transfer fees have gone up only roughly 100% instead of 300%.

I saw a news report from a gun dealer who had to increase his insurance becasue of the amount of guns he had stored waiting for the ND, like 75 of them. I don't blame dealers from trying to ease the cost of storage by upping the transfer ante and hopefully it will come down with the backlog. But don't hold your breath. Once a cost is accepted(like the price of gas) it becomes the new bar on the graph.

Not sure where you live, and I know there are others who will transfer AND who will release ON TIME (aka 8 days), you may want to check out bollingers in Taneytown. Their prices are better than the one you list (though I don't recall specific rate). Bandi and rob are good folks.

I know today's situation makes it tough and while it is the FFLs biz to run they way they want, it is your patronage to give to those you want. We all have relationships and loyalties, maybe it's,time to,let your fingers do the walking and start a new business relationship with another FFL.

I refinanced my home 2 years ago and in the process discovered I could save almost 900/ year by changing home owner insurance companies. I had always been content in just paying the renewal and realized the insurance company was counting on me simplifying life and didn't feel compelled to stay competitive in the market. When I called to cancel the policy I had held for 15 years, the broker was not only surprised, but unapologetic when I called him out on the premium he was charging. He even tried to show how he could 'save me money over the new rate'. When I asked him if his new price was good ,retroactively, the line went very quiet.

Same is true with the gas station closest to my house. I drive +35K miles/ year and this station is routinely 10 cents more per gallon. I now do a better job f planing and no longer buy any gas from this station as he is no longer competitive.

I'm not dinging our FFL and I've no insight into his cost structure and what may have changed to have him raise his rates - just know there are others out there who offer,this very same service for a lower price who will be happy to perform this service for you. It could be his price embeds a strong desire to NOT do transfers because of storage issues. (Though if he released on time, the storage 'cost' could arguably not be much, if any, higher than it was previously)

Good luck



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