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Old September 29th, 2013, 12:14 PM #21
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This whole thing stinks.
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Old September 29th, 2013, 12:27 PM #22
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Driving is not an enumerated Constitutional right. It is a privilege.
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Anyone who is ok with the HQL, isn't on our side, plain and simple.



Like stated above, the US SC has ruled that the states can charge an amount to cover only the costs associated with the processing of the license but anything above that, it is a tax. This is where the outrageous, $20 per card cost, just to print the card, is going to come into play. SB281 said up to $50, they put it at $50 and have stated, on the record, they never did any real study on the actual cost
Sgt Preston here...

For the record, I'm not OK with the HQL or any part of it...

I was OK with the 7 day wait when it worked...

And it worked very well & within 7 days for many years...

I'm almost 70 & have bought & sold a lot of guns over the years...

I'm still an active shooter who gets out to the rifle range at least once a month...

I don't get out to the indoor pistol range as much as I like because running my business (and life) gets in the way...

Believe me, neither this Law or ObamaCare or Socail Security or Medicare are going away anytime soon...
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Old September 29th, 2013, 12:45 PM #23
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The 7 day wait never "worked". It was an inconvenience that we accepted and was the first step to the hoops we are expected to jump through now.
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Old September 29th, 2013, 12:55 PM #24
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The 7 day wait never "worked". It was an inconvenience that we accepted and was the first step to the hoops we are expected to jump through now.
Agree. Truth is, the 7-day wait became obsolete the minute NICS went online. And those who stated previously that this new legislation is most impactful on minorities and the poor were right on.

sgt23preston (Semper Fi) is a realist, as am I. But let's not restrain others from speaking truths for the sake of realism. Abridgment of our 2nd Amendment rights "is" unconstitutional, despite revisionist court rulings.

What's next ... MD-Approved Writing training/permits for online posts? MD-Approved Speech training/permits for peaceful protest?
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Old September 29th, 2013, 01:32 PM #25
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OK The Constitution states the we all have the right to bear arms...

That means a baby 1 day old or a severely retarded person can get a gun..?

I'm not sure that's what the Framer had in mind...

BUT under the Constitution, the States have the right to regulate what goes on within their State...

Merry-land has always regulated guns going back to shortly after the Civil War...

The earliest regulations were written by Democrats & designed to keep guns out of the hands of newly freed black slaves...

I'm on your side, there is nothing new here, it's just history...
1 day old baby has not reached the age of majority 18yo {guns 21yo}. A severely "retarded" person also would not be able to acquire firearms under various laws.

Merry land - being run by bigoted liberals - began implementing Jim Crow laws to prevent newly freed salves from bearing arms. agreed.
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Old September 29th, 2013, 01:34 PM #26
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There are more lawsuits to come, drafted by some pretty knowledgeable folks. This has been noticed and discussed before, so stay tuned.
THIS; let those who know do what they do best.
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Old September 29th, 2013, 01:45 PM #27
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Understand that all forms of licensing and/or permitting are, in fact, a form of taxation.

If any of you would actually bother to look at the history of driving, you would see that driving your own personal vehicle (motor vehicle or horse, with or without a buggy), you would find that driving is an ancillary right to the right to travel. Driving a personal vehicle on public roads, for personal reasons, is also a right.

Regulating the commercial aspect however, is purely within the realm of a States police powers. There is no argument in that respect. Both the State and the Feds share a power to regulate commerce.

The registration of personal vehicles and the licensing of private drivers is the result of the people buying into a scheme the various States originally proposed to maintain and build roads. The fact that licenses are recognized by the States, was done in the same manner that States recognize CCW licenses. Through individual State reciprocity agreements. The feds never had a thing to do with this.

Having said that, the States can maintain a means of regulating travel, so that the public is safe. Rules of the road are one such regulatory power the States may use. Hence, Drivers Licensing is a permissible tax, to ensure that all private citizens are aware of and compliant with those rules.

Likewise, vehicle registration, at its core, is merely the taxation of personal property. Again, well within the taxing authority of a State.

This is the seminal aspect of how a fundamental right (the right to freely travel using ones personal means) has been subverted and converted to a mere privilege. That fact is evidenced by what you folks have already said; "It's a privilege, not a right."

Regardless, when we look at 1A licensing schemes, we see a vastly different approach.

A State may invoke a license or permit to hold a parade or other public assembly, because of the inherent policing, cleanup and diversion of normal traffic for the times, places and manner of the activity. A State may not license an individual or group merely for the act of engaging in a 1A protected activity.

There have been several cases that are on this point. Murdoch being only one of these.

How does this tie into the NYC case?

If the right to possess a firearm (handguns, per Heller) in the home is a fundamental right, then the State (in this case, New York City) may not make the attainment of that right so burdensome that the ordinary citizen cannot afford to comply with the challenged regulations.

The court accepted (both at the District and Appellate levels) the City's word, without a real look at the arguments against the regulations, that the scheme used by the City was in fact a reasonable regulation aimed at public safety.

A close examination of the scheme reveals that it is the regulations themselves that have been tailored to produce such a large fee. The touted public safety reasoning has not yet been closely looked at. The reasoning’s have been merely accepted (assumed) by the courts.

We would all hope that the SCOTUS takes this case (when it is presented) and strikes the onerous fees, if not the entirety of the regulations themselves. As it now stands, this represents a very dangerous precedent in the form of regulating the other rights.

And please remember, that this particular scheme is to merely possess a firearm, in the home, for self defense. As such, it flies in the face of the particular result at issue in Heller. The so-called "public safety" issue is much removed from this particular issue. Too, should the Osterweil case be resolved in favor of Mr. Osterweil, it would go a long way to resolve fees charged by any government authority.

This brings us to the licensing/permitting schemes of carry. Concealed and/or open in public spaces.

Here, the issue of public safety is more prominent. Yet still, before one can make the claim that the taxation of this right is unconstitutional, one must first convince the court(s) that this right exists. Currently, the various courts are in disarray over this subject.

At this point, a grant of cert in Woollard would be beneficial.

Which is long hand for saying that many of the cases being brought, are interconnected at some level.
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Old September 29th, 2013, 01:49 PM #28
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It's best to not fire all your ammo in one volley.
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Old September 29th, 2013, 02:11 PM #29
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It's best to not fire all your ammo in one volley.
Firing multiple vollies also gives the possibility of drawing an agreeable judge on at least one shot.
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Old September 29th, 2013, 02:57 PM #30
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Possibly several more suits to come, I'm guessing.

And the big bats are just now coming on-deck.
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