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Old September 29th, 2013, 11:15 AM #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sgt23preston View Post
How is it different from a Driver's License..?

If you decide want to drive...

You have to buy insurance...

You have to pay $$ to take classes...

And you have to pay the DMV for a Learners Card...

And you have to pass tests to show that you can drive safely...

Then you get to pay for your license...

And your License will expire after a few years...

Then you need to pay more money for a new license...
But driving is a privilege not a right if I am not mistaken.
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Laws that forbid the carrying of arms...disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes...Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man. --Thomas Jefferson
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Old September 29th, 2013, 11:15 AM #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sgt23preston View Post
How is it different from a Driver's License..?

If you decide want to drive...

You have to buy insurance...

You have to pay $$ to take classes...

And you have to pay the DMV for a Learners Card...

And you have to pass tests to show that you can drive safely...

Then you get to pay for your license...

And your License will expire after a few years...

Then you need to pay more money for a new license...
Driving is not an enumerated Constitutional right. It is a privilege.
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Old September 29th, 2013, 11:17 AM #13
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Lets all answer at the same time
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Laws that forbid the carrying of arms...disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes...Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man. --Thomas Jefferson
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Old September 29th, 2013, 11:20 AM #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by K-Romulus View Post
Nope; as courts hearing the 2AF suit against NYC say, the fees are not a tax - - just merely a way for government to cover the admin costs associated with administering the exercise of a right.

http://www.thegunmag.com/federal-app...icensing-fees/ (slow to load)

http://blogs.findlaw.com/second_circ...r-affirms.html

I don't agree, but that is what the courts said. Maybe the USSC will clear up the NYC fee question, but USSC cases from the past have laid out those rules I just explained.

If the fees are higher than the admin costs, then those excess fees are not cost recovery and possibly could be challenged as a tax.


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NY court is wrong. If appealed to SCOTUS - Murdoch v Pennsylvania - Page [319 U.S. 105, 113] reads... The privilege in question exists apart from state authority. It is guaranteed the people by the federal constitution. viz., The state cannot and does not have the power to license, nor tax, a Right guaranteed to the people.
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Old September 29th, 2013, 11:30 AM #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sgt23preston View Post
How is it different from a Driver's License..?

If you decide want to drive...

You have to buy insurance...

You have to pay $$ to take classes...

And you have to pay the DMV for a Learners Card...

And you have to pass tests to show that you can drive safely...

Then you get to pay for your license...

And your License will expire after a few years...

Then you need to pay more money for a new license...
Besides the previous points made I'll include the following:
a) You don't need a DL to buy a car, and
b) You don't need a DL or insurance to drive on your own property
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Old September 29th, 2013, 11:38 AM #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grampa G View Post
Besides the previous points made I'll include the following:
a) You don't need a DL to buy a car, and
b) You don't need a DL or insurance to drive on your own property
Yup, plus there's no limit on the vehicle you can obtain if it's for use on your own property. You can get a f1 racecar or a monster truck if you want. You only need a license if you're bringing the vehicle into the public domain and then your license is reciprocal with all the states in the republic. You don't even need to do paperwork on a vehicle you're keeping on your property.....and many more people are killed in car accidents each year than in shootings. Plus driving is a privilege.
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Old September 29th, 2013, 11:50 AM #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sgt23preston View Post
How is it different from a Driver's License..?

If you decide want to drive...

You have to buy insurance...

You have to pay $$ to take classes...

And you have to pay the DMV for a Learners Card...

And you have to pass tests to show that you can drive safely...

Then you get to pay for your license...

And your License will expire after a few years...

Then you need to pay more money for a new license...
If you need a license for the 2nd amendment then you will also need a license for other rights.
License to practice religion, only for those churches with low capacity pews.
License to make speeches, only in person and control the number of decibels allowed.
License to print newspapers and books, only those printed on a hand press with moveable lead type.
License to peaceably assemble, only in the vacant lot next to the police station
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Old September 29th, 2013, 11:51 AM #18
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HQL = unconstitutional tax

Quote:
Originally Posted by HotWheelsUMD View Post
Driving is not an enumerated Constitutional right. It is a privilege.
OK The Constitution states the we all have the right to bear arms...

That means a baby 1 day old or a severely retarded person can get a gun..?

I'm not sure that's what the Framer had in mind...

BUT under the Constitution, the States have the right to regulate what goes on within their State...

Merry-land has always regulated guns going back to shortly after the Civil War...

The earliest regulations were written by Democrats & designed to keep guns out of the hands of newly freed black slaves...

I'm on your side, there is nothing new here, it's just history...
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Old September 29th, 2013, 11:56 AM #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by uncommon@comcast.net View Post
NY court is wrong. If appealed to SCOTUS - Murdoch v Pennsylvania - Page [319 U.S. 105, 113] reads... The privilege in question exists apart from state authority. It is guaranteed the people by the federal constitution. viz., The state cannot and does not have the power to license, nor tax, a Right guaranteed to the people.
2AF tried that argument and lost. And 2AF argued the case in the federal courts, not the state courts. The USSC cases I vaguely mentioned all concerned 1st Amt challenges to things like demonstration permits. I will see if I can find a link to the Kwong federal appeals court decision so people can see what it said.

ETA : here is a link
http://dockets.justia.com/docket/cir...s/ca2/12-1578/

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Last edited by K-Romulus; September 29th, 2013 at 01:24 PM.
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Old September 29th, 2013, 12:00 PM #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sgt23preston View Post


OK The Constitution states the we all have the right to bear arms...

That means a baby 1 day old or a severely retarded person can get a gun..?

I'm not sure that's what the Framer had in mind...

BUT under the Constitution, the States have the right to regulate what goes on within their State...

Merry-land has always regulated guns going back to shortly after the Civil War...

The earliest regulations were written by Democrats & designed to keep guns out of the hands of newly freed black slaves...

I'm on your side, there is nothing new here, it's just history...
Anyone who is ok with the HQL, isn't on our side, plain and simple.



Like stated above, the US SC has ruled that the states can charge an amount to cover only the costs associated with the processing of the license but anything above that, it is a tax. This is where the outrageous, $20 per card cost, just to print the card, is going to come into play. SB281 said up to $50, they put it at $50 and have stated, on the record, they never did any real study on the actual cost

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