What HD 20 gauge load in a townhose
- Thread starter arbud
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iH8DemLibz
When All Else Fails.
00 or 000 buck shot.
Is the shotgun your final choice?
Is the shotgun your final choice?
basscat
Ultimate Member
- Jul 23, 2012
- 1,397
- Dec 27, 2012
- 30,178
#4 buck in a 3” shell
Biggfoot44
Ultimate Member
- Aug 2, 2009
- 33,107
Actually 00 or 000B are not options for *20 ga * .
Your best choice is standard 2.75in load of 20 pellets No3 Buck .
IF you hit the Felon , the pellets are likely to either stay inside, or barely exit .
If you actually mean cinder block walls , they are fairly resistant to gun fire , until multiple hits chew through . ( Important Note - This is for cinder blocks actually cemented into real walls in real building . Cinder blocks by themselves , or casual stack are different thing .
Your best choice is standard 2.75in load of 20 pellets No3 Buck .
IF you hit the Felon , the pellets are likely to either stay inside, or barely exit .
If you actually mean cinder block walls , they are fairly resistant to gun fire , until multiple hits chew through . ( Important Note - This is for cinder blocks actually cemented into real walls in real building . Cinder blocks by themselves , or casual stack are different thing .
Biggfoot44
Ultimate Member
- Aug 2, 2009
- 33,107
Damn , I blinked ! A cpl of new 20ga buckshot loads since I went 20ga buckshot shopping.
The standard generic 2.75in 20 pellet No3 remain a decent choice .
The Federal Premium plated & buffered No4 load would be more better for OP by a hair. ( And I'll have to get some for myself .)
The RIO load of 9pellet of 1 Buck is * Very Interesting * . Opposite of what OP is seeking , but interesting . (Particularly since I am a fan of 1buck . I'll have to dig into this later , and see if I can reach conclusions .
The standard generic 2.75in 20 pellet No3 remain a decent choice .
The Federal Premium plated & buffered No4 load would be more better for OP by a hair. ( And I'll have to get some for myself .)
The RIO load of 9pellet of 1 Buck is * Very Interesting * . Opposite of what OP is seeking , but interesting . (Particularly since I am a fan of 1buck . I'll have to dig into this later , and see if I can reach conclusions .
Name Taken
Ultimate Member
Why bother once you get the low penetration 7.62x54?
alucard0822
For great Justice
As others have said, #3 is about the largest buckshot that will stack in a 20ga cup, 20 x 25cal 24gr pellets @ around 1200fps. They could be decent at close range, harder pellets with tight patterns should penetrate sufficiently, but any clothing or barrier is likely to reduce penetration quite a bit. IMO they are far more likely to stop a threat than smaller shot, should be fine to use provided you are proficient with running a shotgun. Could also make a case for expanding slugs, better penetration than buck, and expansion is usually delayed through clothing and lighter barriers, so it isn't reduced as much as small/fast pellets. IMO "overpenetration" is a myth, if a round won't punch through several layers of sheetrock, it won't do enough to reliably stop a threat.
Muleskinner
Ultimate Member
Frangible buck..Most town homes are cheaply built, most home defense shootings are 7 feet or less. Over penetration or rouge pellets would be a big concern...At least frangibles would have a chance to break apart of they hit drywall or plywood.
iH8DemLibz
When All Else Fails.
Muleskinner
Ultimate Member
Frangible buck..Most town homes are cheaply built, most home defense shootings are 7 feet or less. Over penetration or rouge pellets would be a big concern...At least frangibles would have a chance to break apart of they hit drywall or plywood.
JWinners
Member
2.75 3buck. Or a Mossberg 500 loaded with 00.
Amigo109
Active Member
I watched lots of youtube videos on this subject. What I came away with is that at distances of 15 feet or less (that's a likely distance in a town house), #6 birdshot will blow your face off (in 12 ga.) And it will go through clothes, ribs, and a couple walls just fine. That's 12 ga not 20ga, but the results were so devestating, I'm sure 20ga would also be effective. I saw tests where they wrapped a largeroast, sandwiched between 2 racks of ribs in both multiple layers of denim and other tests where it was wrapped in boot leather. At 5 yards and less, the impact was devestating.
I don't think over penetration is a myth at all. If it makes it through just 2 layers of drywall, that's into the next room. It doesn't take a lot to penetrate that. In a TH, the shooting distance is going to be pretty close.
Check out this video, 3/4 of the way through, the guy shoots his meat sandwich with a 28ga #9 birdshot to show the LEAST powerful shotgun round he could test. Extrapolating what a 20ga. #6 or #3 would do, You be the judge but I think it's pretty effective. And those gages will make it to the next room, but probably not with a lot of energy, especially the #6. Remember, this is just 1 video, there are tons of others. Most people are testing for home defense at like 15 to 20 yards...that's way too far. Also, FBI doesn't recommend anything less than 00 buck in 12ga for defensive rounds. But I'm telling you, the videos speak for themselves.
https://youtu.be/zaR1EVybUgc[URL="Shotgun test birdshot for HD "
I don't think over penetration is a myth at all. If it makes it through just 2 layers of drywall, that's into the next room. It doesn't take a lot to penetrate that. In a TH, the shooting distance is going to be pretty close.
Check out this video, 3/4 of the way through, the guy shoots his meat sandwich with a 28ga #9 birdshot to show the LEAST powerful shotgun round he could test. Extrapolating what a 20ga. #6 or #3 would do, You be the judge but I think it's pretty effective. And those gages will make it to the next room, but probably not with a lot of energy, especially the #6. Remember, this is just 1 video, there are tons of others. Most people are testing for home defense at like 15 to 20 yards...that's way too far. Also, FBI doesn't recommend anything less than 00 buck in 12ga for defensive rounds. But I'm telling you, the videos speak for themselves.
https://youtu.be/zaR1EVybUgc[URL="Shotgun test birdshot for HD "
JWinners
Member
- Feb 4, 2013
- 28,175
Bird shot has very low penetration.
So low chance of incapacitation.
Discussed many times here. Your choice, your life. I vote #1 Buck for MY LIFE.
So low chance of incapacitation.
Discussed many times here. Your choice, your life. I vote #1 Buck for MY LIFE.
alucard0822
For great Justice
What some videos and unscientific testing show is shot patterned dense enough to abrade soft tissue, hit in a column and penetrate far more than the individual pellets are capable of. It's not reliable, any barrier in front of the target will disperse the column, or after a few feet. Of course it's still better than harsh words, but there is a strong possibility a weapon with very low capacity, and that is slow to reload won't incapacitate a threat, not because the round FAILED to perform as intended, but because it DID perform as designed, with a cloud of tiny pellets stopping in clothing and a couple inches of skin. Meanwhile the threat will still be capable of mag dumping whatever "over-penetrating" load they happened to have in your general direction, pretty much making the care and attention you have for people on the otherside of your walls pointless. The one redeeming attribute of a shotgun for defense is the power and damage large buckshot or slugs can do to a target, doesn't make sense to handicap that.
Amigo109
Active Member
Don't be a Goober Smoocher
For those that think clothing will significantly slow down and disperse birdshot watch this. Remember, we're talking about shots from 15 feet away, not 25 yards. This is for a HD scenario in a town house which will be close quarters.
Watch the second half of this one. It is for 12 ga. Fyi This guy destroyed a perfectly good hunk a meat so that you wouldn't have to be a Goober Smoocher.
[YT]gq3RVvL9ZjU[/YT]
For those that think clothing will significantly slow down and disperse birdshot watch this. Remember, we're talking about shots from 15 feet away, not 25 yards. This is for a HD scenario in a town house which will be close quarters.
Watch the second half of this one. It is for 12 ga. Fyi This guy destroyed a perfectly good hunk a meat so that you wouldn't have to be a Goober Smoocher.
[YT]gq3RVvL9ZjU[/YT]
smokey
2A TEACHER
- Jan 31, 2008
- 31,494
Amigo109
Active Member
You saw my video and raised me 2 lol
Good videos. In the second one, he used the thicker bone plate which probably accurately represents whether the burden of can make it through bone at 10 ft. It can break bone and just barely make it past the bone.
10 ft. Is even a bit short on the distance, 15 to 20 is probably more useful info. I'm sure he would have got a lot worse results at that longer but still completely plausible distance.
The videos that I posted show a very realistic scenario with a combination of rib bone and meat. The shot pellets that miss the bone are going to penetrate pretty well, though not as well as buckshot of course.
And remember that the OP has 20ga, for which it's pretty hard to find good testing examples.
Bottom line, it comes down to a choice by the homeowner. It's a trade off between stopping power and over penetration. Especially in a row house.
Personally, I have my HD shotgun loaded with 00 buck. But I really researched it. I have a single family house on a half acre. I don't expect after leaving my house, traveling a couple hundred ft. then entering a neighbor's house, that the shot would have any steam left.
But if I had to compromise, I think a heavy load high velocity birdshot would stop someone. I'm not denying that it might take a second shot, nor that a drugged up intruder might not drop on a dime. But like I said, it's all about compromise.
Thanks for posting those videos. They are well done.
Good videos. In the second one, he used the thicker bone plate which probably accurately represents whether the burden of can make it through bone at 10 ft. It can break bone and just barely make it past the bone.
10 ft. Is even a bit short on the distance, 15 to 20 is probably more useful info. I'm sure he would have got a lot worse results at that longer but still completely plausible distance.
The videos that I posted show a very realistic scenario with a combination of rib bone and meat. The shot pellets that miss the bone are going to penetrate pretty well, though not as well as buckshot of course.
And remember that the OP has 20ga, for which it's pretty hard to find good testing examples.
Bottom line, it comes down to a choice by the homeowner. It's a trade off between stopping power and over penetration. Especially in a row house.
Personally, I have my HD shotgun loaded with 00 buck. But I really researched it. I have a single family house on a half acre. I don't expect after leaving my house, traveling a couple hundred ft. then entering a neighbor's house, that the shot would have any steam left.
But if I had to compromise, I think a heavy load high velocity birdshot would stop someone. I'm not denying that it might take a second shot, nor that a drugged up intruder might not drop on a dime. But like I said, it's all about compromise.
Thanks for posting those videos. They are well done.
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