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  • Af_catfish

    Abandon All Hope
    Sep 6, 2011
    261
    Bremen, Ohio
    Funny how this started a semantics debate.
    I would take my AR. I have plenty of ammo for it and I feel comfortable with it. .223/5.56 is not the ideal all around caliber, but would work for hunting and self defense. I could carry alot of ammo and as a popular cartridge it would be easy to resupply. If I anticipate having to walk everywhere I would probably put the carbine upper/buttstock on it. Fullsize rifles aren't a whole lot heavier, but every pound counts. I would keep the iron sights. Optics are nice but if they're damaged, you're SOL. Same for the red dot sights. Awesome until the battery runs out. I may have given this a tad too much thought.
     

    jimbobborg

    Oddball caliber fan
    Aug 2, 2010
    17,112
    Northern Virginia
    Funny how this started a semantics debate.
    I would take my AR. I have plenty of ammo for it and I feel comfortable with it. .223/5.56 is not the ideal all around caliber, but would work for hunting and self defense. I could carry alot of ammo and as a popular cartridge it would be easy to resupply. If I anticipate having to walk everywhere I would probably put the carbine upper/buttstock on it. Fullsize rifles aren't a whole lot heavier, but every pound counts. I would keep the iron sights. Optics are nice but if they're damaged, you're SOL. Same for the red dot sights. Awesome until the battery runs out. I may have given this a tad too much thought.

    My Aimpoint has a 4 year, constant on battery life. And it's an Aimpoint, they're kind of tough. I still wouldn't use an AR for SHTF/PAW, that aluminum tube holding the stock wouldn't hold up to butt stroking someone in the head more than a couple of times.
     

    Forest

    The AR guy
    Jul 13, 2011
    985
    I would keep the iron sights.
    Iron sights as a Backup for sure, but not as primary. All my ARs have backup irons.

    Optics are nice but if they're damaged, you're SOL.
    Don't buy crap optics and it's not so much an issue.

    Irons are nice; until you need to shoot in low light or speed is a critical priority... ;)

    Same for the red dot sights. Awesome until the battery runs out. .
    Well if you got a newere Aimpoint they are good for something like 10,000 hours on a battery? Spare batteries are reasonably priced, small, and very lightweight - it's easy to have a spare or three on the rifle and they can store for up to 10 years (lithium).
     

    Nemesis

    Russian Grizzly Adams
    Oct 3, 2009
    3,278
    Martinsburg, WV
    Well if you got a newere Aimpoint they are good for something like 10,000 hours on a battery? Spare batteries are reasonably priced, small, and very lightweight - it's easy to have a spare or three on the rifle and they can store for up to 10 years (lithium).

    40,000 hours for some models, and their newer ones are rated for 50,000+
     

    Af_catfish

    Abandon All Hope
    Sep 6, 2011
    261
    Bremen, Ohio
    My Aimpoint has a 4 year, constant on battery life. And it's an Aimpoint, they're kind of tough. I still wouldn't use an AR for SHTF/PAW, that aluminum tube holding the stock wouldn't hold up to butt stroking someone in the head more than a couple of times.

    I gained my distrust of Aimpoints while in Iraq. After getting bounced around in the truck they would lose their zero. Maybe we just got the bottom of the barrel models. Battery life was good, but was probably just decreased because of the switch constantly getting inadvertently turned on. If I'm ever in a situation where I need the rifle, I want to be able to rely on it. Keeping it basic is, at least to me, a good way to keep it reliable.
     

    Af_catfish

    Abandon All Hope
    Sep 6, 2011
    261
    Bremen, Ohio
    Irons are nice; until you need to shoot in low light or speed is a critical priority... ;)

    Well played. The black front sight post is hard to see in low light. I don't see it being any slower though. Accurate long range shooting takes time. Close in, you don't have to take the time to line up as precisely.
     

    kohburn

    Resident MacGyver
    MDS Supporter
    Aug 15, 2008
    6,796
    PAX NAS / CP MCAS
    depends...SCAR, how many FA AK's do you own? lol

    of what intent is your question intended?

    was mostly confusion of who was saying battle/combat/etc and what they meant.

    seemed like the AK was being assumed as FA but the AR was semi

    I assume ak in the same class as the AR
     

    kohburn

    Resident MacGyver
    MDS Supporter
    Aug 15, 2008
    6,796
    PAX NAS / CP MCAS
    Iron sights as a Backup for sure, but not as primary. All my ARs have backup irons.


    Don't buy crap optics and it's not so much an issue.

    Irons are nice; until you need to shoot in low light or speed is a critical priority... ;)


    Well if you got a newere Aimpoint they are good for something like 10,000 hours on a battery? Spare batteries are reasonably priced, small, and very lightweight - it's easy to have a spare or three on the rifle and they can store for up to 10 years (lithium).

    fiber or glow luminous sights can help with that without needing batteries.

    I like to have night sights or fiber sights and a detachable scope or holo
     

    Nemesis

    Russian Grizzly Adams
    Oct 3, 2009
    3,278
    Martinsburg, WV
    was mostly confusion of who was saying battle/combat/etc and what they meant.

    seemed like the AK was being assumed as FA but the AR was semi

    I assume ak in the same class as the AR

    ah. no i was not referring to the AKs as being FA, that would make them assault rifles, as it would any rifle for that matter. my implication to the comment, as i stated a few comments later, was the intermediate chambered rifles do not qualify as battle rifles in my book, but rather as combat rifles.


    edit: as far as this debate over optics goes...if you are running irons only, more power to you...but denying yourself a added capability in the off chance that it MAY fail you is foolish at best...sure, the C3 or my T1 may go down at some point...however the odds are slim, and i still have iron sights. in fact, im not sure many people run optics only on non-precision builds anyway...almost all of them, at least ones build with any common sense, will have iron sights.
     

    Name Taken

    Ultimate Member
    Feb 23, 2010
    11,891
    Central
    Battery life? My optic is rated at I think to 10-12 years and it dont need no sticking batteries.

    If I did another rifle though...it wouldnt have an Acog.
     

    Forest

    The AR guy
    Jul 13, 2011
    985
    Well played. The black front sight post is hard to see in low light.
    Exactly

    I don't see it being any slower though.
    It's easy to test with a shot timer. Start from low ready, on the beep snap your rifle up and put a round in the A zone.

    With irons you need to have sight alignment and sight picture - with a red dot all that is required is a sight picture.

    There is a reason why red-dots and EOTechs dominate close in shooting, and it's due to their speed.
     

    Forest

    The AR guy
    Jul 13, 2011
    985
    fiber or glow luminous sights can help with that without needing batteries.

    I like to have night sights or fiber sights and a detachable scope or holo

    Tritium sights are indeed helpful, and my M4gery and Glock have luminous front sights, but the red-dot is still better in low light situations and still retains the speed advantage.

    BTW I've also broken 2 Tritium front sights, both Mepro (one AR one - where the vial shattered, one for my Glock where it came loose and went flying somewhere on the range). I'll only use Trijicon now.

    ETA: I'd also point out that once you get over 40, using irons on a carbine get's to be a bit harder... :(
     

    Nemesis

    Russian Grizzly Adams
    Oct 3, 2009
    3,278
    Martinsburg, WV
    Exactly


    It's easy to test with a shot timer. Start from low ready, on the beep snap your rifle up and put a round in the A zone.

    With irons you need to have sight alignment and sight picture - with a red dot all that is required is a sight picture.

    There is a reason why red-dots and EOTechs dominate close in shooting, and it's due to their speed.

    yep...their is nothing easier than putting a dot on a target quickly and putting a round into it...which is made even easier since most red dots and holos are parallax free...so even if you are not directly behind the optic as long as you can see the dot, you're good to go.
     

    BradMacc82

    Ultimate Member
    Industry Partner
    Aug 17, 2011
    26,177
    One of the reasons I like my lowly EO-Tech 512, poor cheek-weld, no problem.
    I'd take my wannabe M4, kids in vietnam use to carry 1500 rounds on them, and that was not that uncommon.

    I like my set-up, Diamond-head flip-up Buis co-witness perfectly with the EO on a 100 yard zero.

    Although point-shooting at close quarters isn't that hard to do with no optic or buis for that matter, but it's still nice to have both.
     

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