Reloaders, what do I have here?

Jaybeez · Oct 8, 2013

one box mostly measures .308 and 130gr+/-

the other box they weight the same but the diameter varies from .309 to .311. I'm thinking these might not be sized? or i just measured a few bad ones. sorry my knowledge of boolits is lacking.

neither box is labeled correctly, and there are 150 pieces.

Deep Creek Rock · Oct 8, 2013

They look like rifle bullets, but Im wondering if those are cast bullets for a 30 Luger or a 30 mauser - I dont see a gas check, or a heel for a gas check.

On the bullets that are larger diameter, is there lube in the lube band?

Jaybeez · Oct 8, 2013

Deep Creek Rock said:
They look like rifle bullets, but Im wondering if those are cast bullets for a 30 Luger or a 30 mauser - I dont see a gas check, or a heel for a gas check.

On the bullets that are larger diameter, is there lube in the lube band?

yes. all have a waxy lube.

but on the smaller more consistant ones, the last ring seems "brighter" like it was swaged a little maybe. the larger ones seem to be dull all over.

one box is labeled for .355 jacketed speer 9mm, and the other box is for .45 acp speer, with the word "military" written in blue marker. so the guy loaded pistol at least.

Deep Creek Rock · Oct 8, 2013

Its possible they are all the same, just sized to a different diameter.

jimbobborg · Oct 8, 2013

Sounds like someone mixed Mosin or Enfield sized bullets with the .308. I'd separate out the bigger ones and give them to someone who has the rifle for it.

browning guy · Oct 8, 2013

jimbobborg said:
Sounds like someone mixed Mosin or Enfield sized bullets with the .308. I'd separate out the bigger ones and give them to someone who has the rifle for it.

Pretty much.

coopermania · Oct 8, 2013

Looks like 30 Caliber Rifle bullets, Cast bullets should be 2 Thousands larger than jacketed bullets. If the bullets are the same except in diameter they were either sized different or cast from a different alloy. Different alloys will cast different sized bullets in the same mold.

j8064 · Oct 8, 2013

Probably these or something similar: http://www.midwayusa.com/product/76...2x39mm-309-312-diameter-130-grain-pointed-tip
The .311's could be resized to .309 easy enough for loading 30 carbine. For so few, I'd be inclined to toss them in the lead pot.

Jaybeez · Oct 8, 2013

so maybe factory cast boolits 2 thous over and someone tried to size some of them? other than the diameter both batches look identical.

these were found left in a foreclosed home.

stu929 · Oct 8, 2013

30-30? Isn't that slightly larger than the standard .308 bore?

Just guessing from the weight and profile of the bullet. 30 carb was an idea as well but I thought they were .308

Jaybeez · Oct 9, 2013

stu929 said:
30-30? Isn't that slightly larger than the standard .308 bore?

Just guessing from the weight and profile of the bullet. 30 carb was an idea as well but I thought they were .308

you might be on to something with the 30-30, weight and profile are a match, and the interwebs say bullet diameter is .308

Deep Creek Rock · Oct 9, 2013

Jaybeez said:
you might be on to something with the 30-30, weight and profile are a match, and the interwebs say bullet diameter is .308

A Jacketed bullet for 30-30 is .308" diameter.

Typically lead bullets are .001" over jacketed bullets, sometimes they are more. But someone probably sized those bullets you have.

Jaybeez · Oct 9, 2013

Deep Creek Rock said:
A Jacketed bullet for 30-30 is .308" diameter.

Typically lead bullets are .001" over jacketed bullets, sometimes they are more. But someone probably sized those bullets you have.

well, I think I'll slug the marlin's barrel and see what it measures, find my bag of 30-30 brass, see if I can find some dies, and do a little reading on loading cast lead boolits for rifle.

Pinecone · Oct 9, 2013

.30-30 bullets tend to be flat points or more rounded. The concern is the more pointy bullet setting of a primer in the magazine tube.

Also, most people tend to shoot 150 gr or heavier in .30-30

These can be shot in pretty much any 30 caliber rifle, but at 130 grains, M1 Carbine, 7.62x39 or similar rounds would be the best fit.

Similar looking Lyman Mold - http://www.lymanproducts.com/lyman/bullet-casting/mould-details-rifles.php?entryID=45

.30-30 Lyman Mold, note the well rounded nose - http://www.lymanproducts.com/lyman/bullet-casting/mould-details-rifles.php?entryID=47

Another .30-30 mold, notice the flat point - http://www.lymanproducts.com/lyman/bullet-casting/mould-details-rifles.php?entryID=48

wgttgw · Oct 9, 2013

If the unsized bullet will chamber without force in your 30-30 there would no danger in shooting them. Slugging the barrel would not be a bad idea either. I shoot .311 in my 30-30 because that is what it likes. And if yours in a marlin .311 would be typical for the micro groove barrels.

Unchecked bullet typically have a velocity threshold of around 1500 FPS if everything else (fit, alloy, lube) is right. It is really about pressure but with no way for the average shooter to measure pressure the velocity is used to assume the pressure. I shoot a unchecked 165 grain bullets with 10 gr of unique at around 1450 fps.

The Lyman mold posted earlier would be my guess to the source. They are definitely hand cast not commercial by the way the base looks where the sprue was cut. My guess is one box is sized one is as cast. They could have been pan lubed and then some ran through a push through lee sizer. This would seem to me fit the description of what you have.

A hand-loader can load pointed bullets in a 30-30 provided you only put one in the tube and one in the chamber.

sxs · Oct 9, 2013

stu929 said:
30-30? Isn't that slightly larger than the standard .308 bore?

Just guessing from the weight and profile of the bullet. 30 carb was an idea as well but I thought they were .308

wgttgw said:
If the unsized bullet will chamber without force in your 30-30 there would no danger in shooting them. Slugging the barrel would not be a bad idea either. I shoot .311 in my 30-30 because that is what it likes. And if yours in a marlin .311 would be typical for the micro groove barrels.

Unchecked bullet typically have a velocity threshold of around 1500 FPS if everything else (fit, alloy, lube) is right. It is really about pressure but with no way for the average shooter to measure pressure the velocity is used to assume the pressure. I shoot a unchecked 165 grain bullets with 10 gr of unique at around 1450 fps.

The Lyman mold posted earlier would be my guess to the source. They are definitely hand cast not commercial by the way the base looks where the sprue was cut. My guess is one box is sized one is as cast. They could have been pan lubed and then some ran through a push through lee sizer. This would seem to me fit the description of what you have.

A hand-loader can load pointed bullets in a 30-30 provided you only put one in the tube and one in the chamber.

Hmm, educate me then. I thought older 30-30's (primarily old Winchester 94s) required .307 diameter bullets. In fact IIRC, bullets listed as being for 30-30 specifically were usually .307 (and either flat nosed or hollow cavity) even though more modern lever actions can handle .308. I would have thought .309-.311 bullets would cause pressure to spike and be a real problem espeicially in the older guns. Perhaps the lead bullets loaded with modest amounts of powder will just allow the lead to be swaged wihout excessive pressure? My experience in loading 30-30 (and it's been years ago - I rarely shoot the caliber now) is almost all with jacketed bullets.
I concur with what you say about spitzers and will add, FWIW, that you can get significantly better accuracy and downrange energy with them (thats partly how the Hornady LeverEvolution works). I discovered this when playing with spitzers in my T/C Contender with 30-herrett barrel. That led me to try handloading 30-30 spitzers in my T/C 30-30 barrel which I then tried in my Marlin (be careful with this...many listed loads for a T/C Contender 30-30 exceed specs for 30-30 in rifle - mine did not as they were moderate loads). Wow, What a difference. I went from 3-1/2" groups at 100 yds to 2" plus appeared to retain more velocity. As you stated...and I will re-emphasize: you can only load 2 in a tube magazine gun...1 in the chamber and 1 in the tube. Loading 2 or more in the tube has some potential for a dangerous chain fire.

wgttgw · Oct 9, 2013

I really can't say about older 30-30 using .307 as I never heard of it which dose not mean its false. .308 jacket bullets are the normal 30-30 bullet. It is what factor ammo is and what we buy to load jackets rounds. Cast is a different animal. Cast is way softer than jacketed so where a oversized jacket bullet would cause a dangerous situation the same is not true with cast (to an extent). Typical cast bullets are .001-.002 over there jacketed counter parts rather bought commercial or casted. The OP has bullets ranging from .309-.311. This would be typical results for the as cast diameter. Bullets can and sometimes are shot as cast. If they will chamber without force he is fine. It is fairly common knowledge in with the casting community that the Marlins with micro groove barrels are oversized and preform better with .310-.311. I have a Marlin and a Winchester and shoot .311 in both so I don't have to keep two loads. I also don't just push them slow. With gas checks I load them to near factory velocity.

sxs · Oct 9, 2013

Found a forum talking about .307 bullets:

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/archive/index.php/t-192915.html

Apparently OLD information although I remembered knowing even then that 308 was safe to use as well. I do remeber now that those old .307 bullets didn't get nearly the accuracy in my TC that a .308 would and that led to experimentation with .308 spitzer-type bullets which in turn led to experiments with spitzer bullets in my Marlin 336 and Win 94. I think I still have a partial box of .307 125 gr Hollow cavity bullets I once experimented with (they didn't do all that in my guns - T/C or Marlin or Win)

Thanks for the education on shooting cast lead. I have used cast lead primarily just for pistol bullets in the past and I have just bought those from reputable businesses without much of a second thought. I have never cast my own, but I do know they are usually cast slightly oversized then sized and lubed in some sort of sizer. I didn't realize that the sizer would / could also 'oversize' them a bit.

Even us old guys can learn a new thing or 2!

By the way...it just occurred to me. I'm sure I remember correctly that when I went from the standard '30-30' bullets to spitzer I went from .307 bullets to .308. Accuracy I always believed was enhanced by use of spitzers may have also been aided by a very slightly larger bullet and not just the spitzer form factor! WOW! (and DUH!!!)

John from MD · Oct 9, 2013

+1 on 30 carbine and 7.62x39. Not a 30-30 due to the bullet nose shape. Also, many 30-30's actually do better with .311 lead bullets.

Reloaders, what do I have here?

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