Just built this AR Pistol....

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  • Markp

    Ultimate Member
    Dec 22, 2008
    9,392
    So in other words I can build it with any size barrel as and can be less than 26" overall as long as I only use an AFG and not a vertical foregrip.
    Am I correct? Or would that be considered AOW

    Essentially that is what I have been led to believe from the ATF rulings that I have read. The ATF has ruled that the VFG is not a vertical fore grip and thus not offensive.
     

    seawolf823

    ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ
    Dec 18, 2011
    931
    Timonium
    Essentially that is what I have been led to believe from the ATF rulings that I have read. The ATF has ruled that the VFG is not a vertical fore grip and thus not offensive.

    so if when completed it is less than 26" I'm good to go as long as I don't use a vertical grip?
     

    jcbvh

    Active Member
    Dec 30, 2012
    977
    Louisiana Cajun Country
    So in other words I can build it with any size barrel as and can be less than 26" overall as long as I only use an AFG and not a vertical foregrip.
    Am I correct? Or would that be considered AOW

    This is what I understand about the law. (others, correct me if I'm wrong)

    A stripped lower has to be a dedicated pistol lower or virgin lower designated as "other" on the 4473 form.

    For Example:

    The Essential Arms stripped lower was purchased by me, and was designated as "other" on the 4473 form by my FFL. Now that I have converted it to a pistol, the lower is now a pistol lower. I still have the option of going SBR.

    Conversely, once a virgin lower is converted to a rifle, its a rifle forever.

    In addition, if I were to ever to sell it; I would have to sell it/transfer it as a pistol.

    I think this is why many people get a SBR stamp because you can do whatever you want with it. (If your state allows it)

    I just always liked AR pistols
     

    Markp

    Ultimate Member
    Dec 22, 2008
    9,392
    Conversely, once a virgin lower is converted to a rifle, its a rifle forever.


    This is no longer true... follow the link!

    http://www.atf.gov/files/regulations-rulings/rulings/atf-rulings/atf-ruling-2011-4.pdf

    "Held further,a firearm, as defined by 26 U.S.C. 5845(a)(3) and (a)(4), is not made when a pistol is attached to a part or parts designed to convert the pistol into a rifle with a barrel of 16 inches or more in length, and the parts are later unassembled in a configuration not regulated under the NFA (e.g. , as a pistol)."

    As long as it didn't begin life as a rifle you can go back and forth.
     

    Markp

    Ultimate Member
    Dec 22, 2008
    9,392
    So where can I get a "virgin" lower instead of a regular lower?

    I ordered them from a manufacturer and had them shipped to my FFL who processed the transactions properly (or as closely as I could have hoped in this state) so that they were not transferred as rifles.
     

    tc617

    USN Sub Vet
    Jan 12, 2012
    2,287
    Yuma, Arizona
    So where can I get a "virgin" lower instead of a regular lower?

    Virgin lowers are no different than a regular lower, they just never have been assembled into a rifle configuration and transferred on a 4473 as a 'RIFLE'. Simply order a new stripped lower and when your FFL receives it they will mark on the 4473 as 'OTHER', just as they should for any AR-15 lower.

    When the lower is in your possession, then you have the choice of building it into whatever you want; a pistol, H-BAR, rifle, or you could get an approved Form 1 and then build it into an AOW or SBR.
     

    MauiWowie

    I have the SIGness...
    Nov 23, 2008
    7,347
    Harford Co.
    So let me get this straight.
    I can build an AR pistol without a stamp?
    As long as my over all length is more than. 26" and NO foregrip only AFG?
     

    jcbvh

    Active Member
    Dec 30, 2012
    977
    Louisiana Cajun Country
    So let me get this straight.
    I can build an AR pistol without a stamp?
    As long as my over all length is more than. 26" and NO foregrip only AFG?

    I can build an AR pistol without a stamp?
    YES

    As long as my over all length is more than. 26"
    NO, can be any length

    Discussed here: http://www.ar15.com/archive/topic.html?b=3&f=122&t=545431

    and NO foregrip only AFG
    YES (there is a ATF letter on this, link below)

    (See Question #7): https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B0qyloA48O3XZWFjYjMwYTMtYTg1MC00NzVhLWI3NmMtZDRiNTMzNzdhMzUx/edit?hl=en&pli=1
     

    HarCo2ANewb

    Subibro
    Mar 24, 2011
    5,899
    Elkridge
    So let me get this straight.
    I can build an AR pistol without a stamp?
    As long as my over all length is more than. 26" and NO foregrip only AFG?

    According to MarkP, over 26" is only for a VFG, under 26", you can only use the AFG. I have never heard of the VFG for over 26.5 before so I can't verify it.

    And yes, no stamp needed if there is not a stock. Many will say to use a pistol tube that cannot accept a stock or modify a rifle tube by wrapping it in paracord or other things to make it so it cannot be easily made into a rifle and fall under the "constructive intent" phrasing of the ATFs rules and leave you subject to the 10 years, 250k fine part of the NFA laws.
     

    jcbvh

    Active Member
    Dec 30, 2012
    977
    Louisiana Cajun Country
    According to MarkP, over 26" is only for a VFG, under 26", you can only use the AFG. I have never heard of the VFG for over 26.5 before so I can't verify it.

    And yes, no stamp needed if there is not a stock. Many will say to use a pistol tube that cannot accept a stock or modify a rifle tube by wrapping it in paracord or other things to make it so it cannot be easily made into a rifle and fall under the "constructive intent" phrasing of the ATFs rules and leave you subject to the 10 years, 250k fine part of the NFA laws.

    Exactly why I chose to get the Phase 5 pistol buffer tube:thumbsup:
     

    namelessname120

    Active Member
    Jul 6, 2011
    753
    Ok , so basically just buy a stripped lower and go from there. I thought when you buy a stripped lower it has to be titled different.
     

    HarCo2ANewb

    Subibro
    Mar 24, 2011
    5,899
    Elkridge
    I got a little carried away.

    Who hasnt?



    Ok , so basically just buy a stripped lower and go from there. I thought when you buy a stripped lower it has to be titled different.

    Just make sure the 4473 doesn't say rifle and that is about it.

    Do the pistol buffer tubes need a specific spring? Or will carbine buffer spring work?

    When I bought my tube from Phase 5, it came with everything. link here, $69.95
     
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