National Reciprocity - It Begins

jmjax14 · Feb 22, 2011

What about military with a DL and CCW from their home state but reside in MD due to military orders?

Fideo · Feb 22, 2011

jmjax14 said:
What about military with a DL and CCW from their home state but reside in MD due to military orders?

By the letter of the bill you should be fine, as your home state is still considered your state of residency while in the military regardless of where you are stationed. My brother even has a MD address on his NY Drivers license.

I think you would be fine under the wording, but that doesn't mean that the state wouldn't harass you about it. However in the case of any interaction with police, you would in every way be and appear as a resident of your home state.

As always in the case that this gets passed, I suggest getting this clarified by an attorney.

angst1972 · Feb 22, 2011

This is HUGE!

Mr H · Feb 22, 2011

gprimr1 said:
I would say with Vermont, the driver's license should be the permit.

While I agree in principle, I'm not sure I agree in practice.

There may be several "Constitutional Carry" states by the time this goes through, but that's not my point.

There may be a reason/need to have a nationally recognized online safety course that could be the basis for allowing ConCar residents the reciprocity the bill offers.

Said course could also be used for the purpose of issuing non-resident permits across the country, standardizing the issue process.

There will be reasons to be cautious, but it may be something to consider.

Fideo · Feb 22, 2011

Some constitutional carry states already will issue permits for just that reason; so that they can have reciprocity with other states.

What we don't want is a "National Standard." This bill; in my opinion, does it the right way by leaving states rights intact, but at the same time allowing people the same rights in other states as they have in their home states.

Wiley-X · Feb 22, 2011

Patrick said:
You will need to have a valid state ID with your permit when you carry.

My permit is a valid state ID. What would I have to do?

Gray Peterson · Feb 22, 2011

We have since clarified the following:

Non-resident licenses can be used by residents of may-issue no-issue states to carry in states other than their own. So Marylanders can get an out of state license and carry in every state other than their own, and WI/IL is out. If they pass their own laws, that would be done.

rambling_one · Feb 22, 2011

Gray Peterson said:
We have since clarified the following:

Non-resident licenses can be used by residents of may-issue no-issue states to carry in states other than their own. So Marylanders can get an out of state license and carry in every state other than their own, and WI/IL is out. If they pass their own laws, that would be done.

This is looking better by the minute. :thumbsup:

SkunkWerX · Feb 22, 2011

THis puts a may-issue state like MD in a huge vice. This is really BIG.

Imagine the day this passes and is signed into law.
Imagine Woollard is not yet decided?

A Virginian, or any other state, with a CCW permit can carry in MD, but Marylanders who do not meet the subjectivity of MD's permitting scheme cannot?

Ding Ding Ding, don't we have a court case right there?
Someone from another state has more rights than I do, in my own state?

And while it's being bantered about, we Marylanders can go get our VA or PA out-of-state CCW and use it everywhere except here in MD. win.

The pressure on MD becomes unbearable as I see it.
Once word is out, can the current crop of politicians in MD withstand money flowing into our state from those who want to help support our cause?
Yes it does happen. This past election cycle saw a lot of money being sent across state lines to help in close races.

The ramifications are many and some are staggering. :thumbsup:

Splitter · Feb 22, 2011

No offense to anyone in this thread and I am really hoping....but....

The Dems still control the Senate. Obama is president. There's a veto in the wings even if it does pass the Senate.

Plus, there's a Democrat laying in rehab from a gun injury by a madman. They'll use that.

That it is coming up for debate and, hopefully, a vote is a GOOD thing. I'll just be astonished if it even makes it to the President's desk for a veto. Not sure what they could attach it to.

Splitter

Darkemp · Feb 22, 2011

This would be nice karma for the Hughes Amendment.

Bigdtc · Feb 22, 2011

Splitter said:
No offense to anyone in this thread and I am really hoping....but....

The Dems still control the Senate. Obama is president. There's a veto in the wings even if it does pass the Senate.

Plus, there's a Democrat laying in rehab from a gun injury by a madman. They'll use that.

That it is coming up for debate and, hopefully, a vote is a GOOD thing. I'll just be astonished if it even makes it to the President's desk for a veto. Not sure what they could attach it to.

Splitter

Agree 100%...
Also, I doubt it would help us here until after the Woolard decision. Remember who is in charge here. They dont give a F*** about our rights.. Thats a fact.

jpk1md · Feb 23, 2011

WeaponsCollector said:
I will not be happy until there is national CONSTITUTIONAL carry.
Free citizens should never require a "permit" to carry concealed weapons.

Isn't that already covered under "The right of the people to keep and BEAR arms shall not be infringed"

jpk1md · Feb 23, 2011

Patrick said:
Yes.

Also, declared authority for this bill is Article I, Section 8, Clause 3: "Commerce Clause". Already filed.

I know many hate the Commerce Clause, but it works. As a side note, it's going to be hard to argue against that authority when the liberals are using the Commerce Clause to force you to buy health insurance under the theory that by not engaging in commerce, you are actually engaging in commerce.

So they are going to have to hold their tongues on that one.

I'll say that these bills are being crafted carefully. These are not just being put out there to make happy talk. They are meant to survive review. My impression was that the staff working this are exceptionally knowledgeable about gun issues. I was surprised at the detail being considered on the other end of the phone.

Help me understand how this fits under the Commerce Clause?

The act of CCW is not "Commerce" by any stretch of the imagination.

There would be a better argument under "Shall Not Be Infringed"

jpk1md · Feb 23, 2011

alucard0822 said:
I can't wait to be wrongfully arrested in MD or DC if this passes

The unfortunate reality is that you will spend time in jail and make a lawyer very very rich to prove your innocence.

If you're lucky and sue in civil court it will languish for a decade along with necessary legal fees you'll be lucky if you don't owe a pile of cash post settlement.

Its likely to be worse in NYC....some poor slob will end up doing his best impersonation of Abner Louima being ass raped with a plunger while in custody and having your intestines punctured and teeth kicked in.

Gray Peterson · Feb 23, 2011

jpk1md said:
Help me understand how this fits under the Commerce Clause?

The act of CCW is not "Commerce" by any stretch of the imagination.

There would be a better argument under "Shall Not Be Infringed"

The 14th amendment's also been used in argument, if you bothered reading the Blog.

Btw, have you turned yourself into the New York State Police for breaking their law on having pistols without a license that you transported while you moved from Maryland to New Hampshire? I mean, you hate the use of the commerce clause and misrepresent the 14th amendment enough times that you should forgo the protections of 18USC926A.

I mean, the states have all the right they want to ban persons from transporting those evil horrible handguns across their states, including those who can't vote in their elections to make a difference, right JP?

hvymax · Feb 23, 2011

jpk1md said:
Isn't that already covered under "The right of the people to keep and BEAR arms shall not be infringed"

And how's that workin out for ya? They are willing to corrupt anything for their agenda and if we don't start using the tools they leave laying around we are done.

Minuteman · Feb 23, 2011

This has the potential to be really huge.

I have a new favorite topic to watch.

frozencesium · Feb 23, 2011

mr h said:
While I agree in principle, I'm not sure I agree in practice.

There may be several "Constitutional Carry" states by the time this goes through, but that's not my point.

There may be a reason/need to have a nationally recognized online safety course that could be the basis for allowing ConCar residents the reciprocity the bill offers.

Said course could also be used for the purpose of issuing non-resident permits across the country, standardizing the issue process.

There will be reasons to be cautious, but it may be something to consider.

They haven't done this with drivers licenses and cars have killed an order of magnitude (at least) more people than guns in this country. If congress treats your carry permit like a drivers license (which is what this bill does in effect) then just like a drivers license each state can come up with their own reasonable test and licensing process/requirements, but also like a drivers license, it will be respected in all other states (with the exception of states that don't issue).

BrandonThibeault · Feb 23, 2011

The fact that some positive gun legislation is out there and Republicans control the house gives us some hope nationally, but as far as MD is concerned we will not be so lucky.

National Reciprocity - It Begins

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