How do I decide?

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  • pilot25

    Ultimate Member
    Jul 13, 2016
    1,822
    I've never shot without double hearing protection. Over the ear and plugs. If I shot anything without protection what would it be like? If you fired a few rounds in your house in a defensive gun use are your ears going to be ringing thereby compromising your ability to hear footsteps or anything like that. Can permanent damage happen?
     

    holesonpaper

    Active Member
    Mar 10, 2017
    912
    Hazzard county
    5.56/.223 with even the best suppressor will be in the 130-140db range.. inside the house and yes, it will likely have your ears ringing, but thats where 300BO shines.. several years ago i was shooting 300bo at the range with a suppressor and three guys approached and thought i was shooting a pellet gun... its not that quiet but we all had a conversation without hearing protection while i continued to fire...

    After you get your suppressor, try mixing in sub subsonics... you’ll understand then...
     

    pilot25

    Ultimate Member
    Jul 13, 2016
    1,822
    5.56/.223 with even the best suppressor will be in the 130-140db range.. inside the house and yes, it will likely have your ears ringing, but thats where 300BO shines.. several years ago i was shooting 300bo at the range with a suppressor and three guys approached and thought i was shooting a pellet gun... its not that quiet but we all had a conversation without hearing protection while i continued to fire...

    After you get your suppressor, try mixing in sub subsonics... you’ll understand then...

    Yes, I have read 300 blackout is the way to go. I really don't want to go down that path however. Leads to a new gun, ammo, mags, storage, etc....
     

    Hawkeye

    The Leatherstocking
    Jan 29, 2009
    3,971
    Like the OP I would like to enter the NFA/suppressor world, and I’m following this thread’s advice as it unfolds. I can’t seem to follow what your point is here though. If Kevin Brittingham designed Sig’s line of suppressors and he makes “awesome products”, why would Sig be ruled out simply because he is a “maverick”? What does this even mean, and why would those of us looking for an “awesome product” exclude Sig’s product line because the designer doesn’t “play nice with others” ? Respectfully not trying to start a thing, just don’t understand what you’re trying to say here.

    It was just kind of a footnote, to be honest. The suppressor industry in this country is really interesting, and it's *really* small compared to some others, because of the amount of hoop jumping and regulations. Thus you end up with a relatively small number of people who are actually driving the innovation in the technical areas (Brittingham, Henry Graham, Mike Pappas, and some others).

    Brittingham seems like an interesting guy. He founded AAC when he was in his early 20's, and grew that into a large (for the suppressor world) company with some good products. AAC ended up getting bought by Remington which turned into a CF. Brittingham left and went to SIG and started their suppressor line. His relationship with them also turned into a CF, and so he left SIG to found Q. Q hasn't been around for very long, so we'll see how that goes.

    Technically, he designs some interesting products, but he's been known just as much for his ability to pot-stir and use "innovative" marketing tactics (he once gave free AAC product to people who got AAC tattoos) to grow his companies. It's fairly clear that he just doesn't play well with others, and wants to follow his own vision, which is great for what it is, but has lead to a fair amount of instability with the companies hes' been involved with.

    As a disclaimer, I don't know the dude at all, and I could be off base with what I've said, but a fair amount of it is public record.
     

    pilot25

    Ultimate Member
    Jul 13, 2016
    1,822
    Innovative, successful, and bright entrepreneurs are like that. They aren't meant to be tied to corporate rules and regs.
     
    Last edited:

    AlBeight

    Member
    MDS Supporter
    Mar 30, 2017
    4,349
    Hampstead
    It was just kind of a footnote, to be honest. The suppressor industry in this country is really interesting, and it's *really* small compared to some others, because of the amount of hoop jumping and regulations. Thus you end up with a relatively small number of people who are actually driving the innovation in the technical areas (Brittingham, Henry Graham, Mike Pappas, and some others).

    Brittingham seems like an interesting guy. He founded AAC when he was in his early 20's, and grew that into a large (for the suppressor world) company with some good products. AAC ended up getting bought by Remington which turned into a CF. Brittingham left and went to SIG and started their suppressor line. His relationship with them also turned into a CF, and so he left SIG to found Q. Q hasn't been around for very long, so we'll see how that goes.

    Technically, he designs some interesting products, but he's been known just as much for his ability to pot-stir and use "innovative" marketing tactics (he once gave free AAC product to people who got AAC tattoos) to grow his companies. It's fairly clear that he just doesn't play well with others, and wants to follow his own vision, which is great for what it is, but has lead to a fair amount of instability with the companies hes' been involved with.

    As a disclaimer, I don't know the dude at all, and I could be off base with what I've said, but a fair amount of it is public record.
    I get that he stirs the pot and seems to leave companies in turmoil, but I still don’t understand how this equates to excluding Sig as a viable option to buy a suppressor. If he produced good products while he was there, and blah-blah-blah he’s moved on to another company, what exactly happened to the Sig suppressors that would make a potential customer avoid it? Does Sig refuse to stand behind them? Did he have some sort of proprietary control over the product where Sig can no longer sell them or stand behind them?

    Your knowledge of the manufacturing and companies involved seems extensive. I’m thinking this alleged guy’s antics would be bad for a smaller manufacturer, a suppressor-specific product developer that was unfortunately banking on hs contributions, but I don’t feel like Sig Sauer is in any danger of closing its doors and leaving a suppressor customer high and dry (if that is the point you’re trying to make). I guess that’s the part I still don’t understand- how is the Sig suppressor product itself? Manufacturing personnel and personalities aside?
     

    holesonpaper

    Active Member
    Mar 10, 2017
    912
    Hazzard county
    Don't fret - Sig makes a quality product. Sig Sauer is all about being that comprehensive gun manufacturer and although I'm not sold on their optics yet, I love love love the P classic pistols. Sig has the money and talent to review and improve and they're not going anywhere. If you look at the internals for the Sigs - they optimize the internal volume by welding the baffles together without an external sleeve - allowing them to increase volume and baffle count. It's a pretty nifty design that Q continued. But that's the nature of suppressors.. Every couple years and someone breaks something new into the market (OSS for example). That's why most of us never stop a one... :D

    As for the man himself. I have my opinion. Lets use Nikola Tesla as an example. Genius but not the best business man... Every aspect of the package for a suppressor must be well thought out given the lengthy and painful NFA process - and that's where I believe he (leaving names out) runs into trouble. Some parts he gets, others - maybe not as much... Time will tell and my opinion is irrelevant.
     

    Hawkeye

    The Leatherstocking
    Jan 29, 2009
    3,971
    Innovative, successful, and bright entrepreneurs are like that. They aren't meant to be tied to corporate rules and regs.

    Absolutely. And being a self made man, he's never needed to be answerable to anyone else, either. Hell, if I had his money I would probably not take half the crap from my employer that I do. :)

    I get that he stirs the pot and seems to leave companies in turmoil, but I still don’t understand how this equates to excluding Sig as a viable option to buy a suppressor. If he produced good products while he was there, and blah-blah-blah he’s moved on to another company, what exactly happened to the Sig suppressors that would make a potential customer avoid it? Does Sig refuse to stand behind them? Did he have some sort of proprietary control over the product where Sig can no longer sell them or stand behind them?

    Your knowledge of the manufacturing and companies involved seems extensive. I’m thinking this alleged guy’s antics would be bad for a smaller manufacturer, a suppressor-specific product developer that was unfortunately banking on hs contributions, but I don’t feel like Sig Sauer is in any danger of closing its doors and leaving a suppressor customer high and dry (if that is the point you’re trying to make). I guess that’s the part I still don’t understand- how is the Sig suppressor product itself? Manufacturing personnel and personalities aside?

    Sorry, I think I may have not been clear: there is absolutely nothing wrong with SIG's suppressor products. They are well designed and well made and supported well. The original discussion on Brittingham started because I was replying to another post that said that the designer of SIG's product line came from SilencerCo. It was Brittingham, who's never worked at SiCo. Then I started this whole tangent that's probably ruining the OP's thread. :P

    But that's the nature of suppressors.. Every couple years and someone breaks something new into the market (OSS for example). That's why most of us never stop a one... :D

    Exactly. A few years ago it was click-together baffle stacks. Then it was modularity, now it's going to be the next thing, and on and on.

    As for the man himself. I have my opinion. Lets use Nikola Tesla as an example. Genius but not the best business man... Every aspect of the package for a suppressor must be well thought out given the lengthy and painful NFA process - and that's where I believe he (leaving names out) runs into trouble. Some parts he gets, others - maybe not as much... Time will tell and my opinion is irrelevant.

    That about sums it up. And my opinion isn't any more relevant either.

    You know, I think we need to put together a suppressor shoot somewhere where we who own stuff can bring it and curious folks can try out a lot of different options.
     

    pilot25

    Ultimate Member
    Jul 13, 2016
    1,822
    I have been happy with my Omega so far. I thought it was one of the best at the time I bought it

    Is there something specific you think has eclipsed it. All your info has been great and I like how you haven't said get this one or that one but clearly here you think something is better.
     

    holesonpaper

    Active Member
    Mar 10, 2017
    912
    Hazzard county
    Is there something specific you think has eclipsed it.

    No matter what you decide, others will suggest this model or that model is better... You have to stop the analysis paralysis and select. Feel free to call SS and discuss - they sell these things all day long and can make recommendations. (and look at the popularity - for what its worth although cost skews) Chances are, if you're like the rest of us, you won't stop at one.. Start the process for the first, and start deciding on the next. And next. If they raise the tax stamp to $500 as indicated in the news - all of us will slow down.
     

    protegeV

    Ready to go
    Apr 3, 2011
    46,880
    TX
    No matter what you decide, others will suggest this model or that model is better... You have to stop the analysis paralysis and select. Feel free to call SS and discuss - they sell these things all day long and can make recommendations. (and look at the popularity - for what its worth although cost skews) Chances are, if you're like the rest of us, you won't stop at one.. Start the process for the first, and start deciding on the next. And next. If they raise the tax stamp to $500 as indicated in the news - all of us will slow down.

    Yup.

    Might as well be dodge/chevy/Ford discussion. There will never be a 100% concensus.
     

    OLM-Medic

    Banned
    BANNED!!!
    May 5, 2010
    6,588
    Yes, I have read 300 blackout is the way to go. I really don't want to go down that path however. Leads to a new gun, ammo, mags, storage, etc....

    You say that now...but wait until you get the suppressor and you want more.

    Either way I recommend a .30 cal can for this reason. For like $200 extra you can use it on other rifles, maybe a bolt action you picked up for your new long range hobby or that .300 blackout you decided to get after all.

    Deciding factors for me were weight, full auto rated (really not necessary but I didn't want to have to worry about rapid fire getting it too hot), multi caliber use, and warranty.

    I shot a friend's YHM Phantom .30 can on a .223 AR and it was about as loud as a unsupressed .22lr, and that's a big can. Not bad, but I think a smaller can would be way too loud. Plus, I'm all about lightweight.

    I'm still waiting on my Micro 30 to get approved.
     

    wabbit

    Ultimate Member
    Apr 29, 2010
    5,185
    I believe you and the fact he was quick to dismiss it was a testament to the fact it happens. He didn't discuss that maybe its just the AAC or whatever. So either he doesn't know his products or just annoyed because he wasn't making a sale.

    Is AAC the only one I have to worry about?

    My YHM flash suppressors don't make a ringing sound when I shoot my AR. Maybe the ones that make the ringing sound are defective designs.
     

    woodline

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Jan 8, 2017
    1,947
    I'm surprised how few reviews of this are out there. I have only found one from the Twang and Bang guy.
    It's new and a proper meter costs thousands of dollars. Suppressors in general don't get the coverage or scrutiny they deserve.

    At this point I think most suppressors from reputable brands are pretty good (my YHM turbo performs phenomenally and that thing can be found online for $300. That is a cheap can right there), so it's important to shop around for sales and make sure you purchase a can with features that are important to you.
     

    pilot25

    Ultimate Member
    Jul 13, 2016
    1,822
    So here is another important question. If I purchase at silencershop.com or a local NFA dealer like The Machine Gun Nest. I have to wait 9 months or so. Who holds onto the silencer during the wait? The silencershop.com or the local dealer? What if the silencershop.com or local dealer goes out of business before my approval comes in?

    Also, the nearest kiosk is pretty far away. Do you really need to use the kiosk? What is the difference between using the kiosk or just buying from the local business?
     

    woodline

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Jan 8, 2017
    1,947
    So here is another important question. If I purchase at silencershop.com or a local NFA dealer like The Machine Gun Nest. I have to wait 9 months or so. Who holds onto the silencer during the wait? The silencershop.com or the local dealer? What if the silencershop.com or local dealer goes out of business before my approval comes in?

    Also, the nearest kiosk is pretty far away. Do you really need to use the kiosk? What is the difference between using the kiosk or just buying from the local business?
    1.) The wait is more like 5-7 months now. Mine have all been 6 months for form 4 trust transfers.

    2.) Silencershop facilitates a form 3 transfer to the dealer as soon as you pay for the suppressor. Those are typically approved in 24-72 hours and then the suppressor ships to whichever dealer you select.

    3.) You use the kiosk once to get your fingerprints into the system. You use the phone app to get your passport photos and your other information and confirm at kiosk. After you do that I don't think you use the kiosk again really. If you want you can always pay for a card and shipping and send your prints in the old fashioned way. Just be warned that once Silencershop has all your info in the system, suppressors are easier to buy than handguns in MD. Online shopping just got real dangerous, because their process is super automated, especially after the first one.

    4.) I honestly have no idea what happens when a store holding your suppressor goes out of business. I assume you have to have it sent to another store via form 3 and probably have to amend your Form 4 with the ATF. Given that it is a massive felony to steal a suppressor and Silencershop has a 100% satisfaction guarantee (including tax stamp cost), I doubt you would have much more than a headache and slight delay to deal with

    5.) Lots of local shops do transfers and do it about as well as Silencershop. 2A Sales and Supplies has a great system, for example. I use Silencershop because they have my trust info and honestly they had their system in place when I did almost all of my buying. In the future I plan to support more local businesses because I don't care if it ends up taking a little longer. A side benefit is that they can sell below minimum asking price, and their prices will likely be lower than Silencershop. But many locals charge a hefty transfer fee if you buy a can online and have it sent to them. That $285 YHM turbo you ordered after a night out at the bars can get pretty expensive if you didn't talk to your local, and they charge you $150 for the transfer + don't do your prints, LEO notification, etc.

    6.) Quit stalling and go buy a good can at a good price from a reputable store that helps you through the process. Cans are great but not magical. Don't build them up to be something they are not. There is no perfect one, but the likelihood that you will actually regret owning at least one is really low. The Silencerco Omega you alluded to is a great choice. Go with that. I am certain you will be happy.
     

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