To Mush or to Break Glass

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  • Tungsten

    Ultimate Member
    Jan 1, 2012
    7,230
    Elkridge, Leftistan
    I have been shooting with a PPQ for quite some time and the trigger profile is such that I have a take up, hit a wall, then it breaks.
    Lately I have acquired a Sig and the trigger feels very different. It is really just an increasing mush until the striker is released.

    I always thought a crisp "glass breaking" feel to the trigger was more desirable, but in shooting the Sig it seems like I have better accuracy and don't anticipate as much.

    Does anyone else prefer a mush to a break?
     

    Bob A

    όυ φροντισ
    MDS Supporter
    Patriot Picket
    Nov 11, 2009
    30,687
    I tolerate mush but prefer glass.
     

    Tungsten

    Ultimate Member
    Jan 1, 2012
    7,230
    Elkridge, Leftistan
    From a purely theoretical perspective, I'm thinking any sudden movement of the trigger (or anything else) should be less accurate than a steady release. From a practical standpoint, I'm not sure it matters as the hammer/striker suddenly releases regardless of the profile of the trigger.
     

    python

    Active Member
    Apr 15, 2010
    600
    I've found Sig triggers to be okay, but nothing special. The SRT is only slightly better. I've just learned to adapt. Knowing what to except from a gun's performance can overcome its shortcomings.
     

    jrumann59

    DILLIGAF
    MDS Supporter
    Feb 17, 2011
    14,024
    I have been shooting with a PPQ for quite some time and the trigger profile is such that I have a take up, hit a wall, then it breaks.
    Lately I have acquired a Sig and the trigger feels very different. It is really just an increasing mush until the striker is released.

    I always thought a crisp "glass breaking" feel to the trigger was more desirable, but in shooting the Sig it seems like I have better accuracy and don't anticipate as much.

    Does anyone else prefer a mush to a break?


    I also prefer a pronounced wall that lets me know I am at the end of the take up on the trigger and anything beyond that wall is the BANG.
     

    Silverlode

    Ultimate Member
    Aug 16, 2010
    4,797
    Frederick
    From a purely theoretical perspective, I'm thinking any sudden movement of the trigger (or anything else) should be less accurate than a steady release. From a practical standpoint, I'm not sure it matters as the hammer/striker suddenly releases regardless of the profile of the trigger.

    This is the exact opposite of what is widely held to be the difference between a good trigger and a bad one. Accuracy data backs it up. For a gross comparison, how is your accuracy with a double action revolver vs your accuracy if you cock the hammer first? Similarly, 1911 trigger vs nearly any DA trigger? And for longer range shooting (300 yds+ perhaps) AR accuracy with a 2 stage trigger vs single stage?
     

    Tungsten

    Ultimate Member
    Jan 1, 2012
    7,230
    Elkridge, Leftistan
    This is the exact opposite of what is widely held to be the difference between a good trigger and a bad one. Accuracy data backs it up. For a gross comparison, how is your accuracy with a double action revolver vs your accuracy if you cock the hammer first? Similarly, 1911 trigger vs nearly any DA trigger? And for longer range shooting (300 yds+ perhaps) AR accuracy with a 2 stage trigger vs single stage?

    I think you are conflating trigger weight with trigger profile. A lighter trigger (up to a point) is always going to be better for accuracy than a heavy trigger.
     

    Magnumite

    Ultimate Member
    Dec 17, 2007
    6,561
    Harford County, Maryland
    "Quotes:
    Originally Posted by Tungsten View Post
    From a purely theoretical perspective, I'm thinking any sudden movement of the trigger (or anything else) should be less accurate than a steady release. From a practical standpoint, I'm not sure it matters as the hammer/striker suddenly releases regardless of the profile of the trigger."


    "This is the exact opposite of what is widely held to be the difference between a good trigger and a bad one. Accuracy data backs it up. For a gross comparison, how is your accuracy with a double action revolver vs your accuracy if you cock the hammer first? Similarly, 1911 trigger vs nearly any DA trigger? And for longer range shooting (300 yds+ perhaps) AR accuracy with a 2 stage trigger vs single stage?""

    It will still be trigger discipline and quality. This will begin some debate but here goes. A bullseye pistol with a good role trigger for good slow fire and cadence timed/rapid fire will not be noticed as readily on a fast shooting action trigger pistol where time is a premium. Some of the quality is lost in the speed in which the trigger is pulled. With a Ruger Redhawk revolver shooting pins I was regularly "in the money" as with the 1911 in their respective classes. The DA pull actually served as a more conscious anchor to maintaining trigger alignment. I prefer a softer trigger feel...a roll if you will...to a glass break. But I tend to hold hard on the target in deliberate slow shooting. When I shoot the same pistol faster I don't feel any disacvantage to that rolling trigger. Now..a good quality trigger is of definite benefit whether the trigger is rolling or crisp. I haven't encountered any striker fired pistol which wasn't mushy with any action parts or work in it. It is what it is.

    Note: Preference being what it is...I actually prefer a good single stage trigger over a good two stage trigger in an AR pattern rifle/carbine for close in shooting. My performance on target bears out comparable results.
     

    Silverlode

    Ultimate Member
    Aug 16, 2010
    4,797
    Frederick
    I think you are conflating trigger weight with trigger profile. A lighter trigger (up to a point) is always going to be better for accuracy than a heavy trigger.

    I am not conflating the two. Yes, generally speaking, a lighter trigger is going to be better for accuracy. Triggers with equal break weight will be more accurate with a crisp break than if there is a pressure build up and then release at the same weight. Yes shooting speed will impact this and yes training can overcome it to a certain degree. How many high dollar triggers or trigger jobs are offering an option for mush?
     

    Silverlode

    Ultimate Member
    Aug 16, 2010
    4,797
    Frederick
    Note: Preference being what it is...I actually prefer a good single stage trigger over a good two stage trigger in an AR pattern rifle/carbine for close in shooting. My performance on target bears out comparable results.

    I do as well except in the two instances of two ARs that I have that are purpose built for longer ranges, one of them being a 308 AR. I have Geissele SSA-E in those. Everything else gets an ALG ACT.
     

    alucard0822

    For great Justice
    Oct 29, 2007
    17,643
    PA
    IMO the reset is more important than the break, a long reset slows down shooting, and a mushy or soft reset makes it easy to move past it, and get a long inconsistent pull. Most striker and some da/sa pistols have essentially a 2 stage trigger, a takeup portion to deactivate a pin block, then the sear is engaged and the 2nd stage is the sear getting pulled out of engagement. The pull weight difference between the 2 stages can give you a long mushy pull(with little difference), or a quick takeup, then a precise and repeatable break(larger difference) For this reason I usually go with a lighter return spring, and sometimes a heavier sear/striker spring. THe reset point is important in that you only need to let the trigger move forward a small ammount to reset the 2nd stage without needing to move all the way back to the 1st, this is critical for shooting fast, and gives the "feel" of a lighter trigger being you really only feel the couple #s difference between the 2 stages. The P-series sig have nice predictable trigggers, and a great short reset with the SRT kit, the Legion / grayguns triggers are epic, actually easier to shoot fast for me than the tiny throw of a good 1911 trigger. On the 320 series, the Graygguns comp kit has a nice 2 stage feel, really good for a polyframe, but even a lighter return spring, and a GG or Apex trigger do help clean things up.
     

    smokey

    2A TEACHER
    Jan 31, 2008
    31,412
    You'd love XDs then. They've typically felt like clunking a light switch back and forth to me.
     

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