Bushmaster ARs - are they all banned?

SkiPatrolDude · Jun 19, 2021

damosan said:
Isn't Windham basically Bushmaster with a new name (as in old Bushmaster crew / equipment)?

D.

Yeah.

Perhaps others know more and can chime in, but my understanding is that old employees bought the toolings and factory building and took over as windham.

Many have anecdotally described Windham rifles as superior in quality and overall QC versus the modern Bushmaster rifles.

damosan · Jun 19, 2021

SkiPatrolDude said:
Many have anecdotally described Windham rifles as superior in quality and overall QC versus the modern Bushmaster rifles.

I have two old Bushmasters I can compare them to. I suspect they're basically the same. I'm looking to buy a new upper from them so I will have to compare quality / components.

Mule · Jun 19, 2021

damosan said:
Isn't Windham basically Bushmaster with a new name (as in old Bushmaster crew / equipment)?

D.

Essentially, yes.

A few years after he sold Bushmaster, the founder learned that the company was being moved out of Maine. He wasn't too happy with that, so he decided to launch another company (Windham), with many of the same employees.

https://www.windhamweaponry.com/about-us/company-history/

Biggfoot44 · Jun 19, 2021

When the original owners of Bushmaster sold to ( then Remington corporate parent) , there was a non compete clause . The day the clause exprired , they reopened in the previous Bushmaster factory, with many of the original employees.

Magnumite · Jun 19, 2021

Why would anyone risk 10’s of $k in legal fees, losing the ability to own firearms for a listed illegal make rifle. As previously stated QC wasn’t great. I owned a 14.5” with a pinned compensator and shot horrible. Obtained a Bushmaster HBAR upper and it shot like a laser.

I don’t see a favorable risk:reward ratio.

Pinecone · Jun 19, 2021

Bertfish said:
I get it's illegal. But who checks? ATF? MSP doesn't have jurisdiction out of state

ATF. It is a FEDERAL crime.

ATF checks the books of all FFLs. If they see a sale to an MD resident, you can be sure that they will check if it was a legal sale. And if not, arrest and fine the FLL, and come after you. And shoot your dog.

Magnumite · Jun 19, 2021

Not shoot the dog!

Threeband · Jun 19, 2021

They will turn your dog to testify against you.

Ammo Jon · Jun 19, 2021

Threeband said:
They will turn your dog to testify against you.

Only if she’s a real bitch.

teratos · Jun 19, 2021

My dog would turn me in for Snausages. I’m sure of it.

Magnumite · Jun 19, 2021

Mine for Canine Carryout Cuts!

Biggfoot44 · Jun 19, 2021

My dogs probably wouldn't . But the cat.....

Bertfish · Jun 21, 2021

mopar92 said:
Tis a grey area. Bushmaster semi auto carbine refers to the ugly monkey guns like the M17S (IIRC).

MSP treats all Bushmasters as these and says they are verboten. Nothing in COMAR reflects this. A rich and bored person may force the issue by buying a Bushmaster and suing MSP and the state of MD.

A frugal and sensible person would ask the FFL to pull the gas tube rendering the firearm non semiautomatic and/or buy the rifle as a parts kit sans lower. Then have the FFL keep the lower as payment.

You can also legally buy a Bushmaster lower reciever. I have one sitting on my desk at home that is a post 2013 lower.

Rereading things

So even today you can buy a Bushmaster lower? But not a complete rifle? I did see some bushmaster lowers at Chantilly marked as "Maryland ok"

scootinthru · Jun 23, 2021

Bushmaster & the D.C. Sniper

The reason why all Bushmaster firearms have been categorically banned in this state is due to the fact that it was a Bushmaster AR 15 in .223 which was used in a majority of the shootings attributed to the D.C. Sniper.

Biggfoot44 · Jun 23, 2021

Close , but the timing is off . The deliberate misinterpretation came much later after several other high profile incidents .

Melnic · Jun 23, 2021

To add to what 3band says,
This is what was originally banned:
GWINN Bushmaster Rifle
https://www.rockislandauction.com/detail/64/3731/gwinn-firearms-bushmaster-rifle-556-mm

There were Bushmaster brand AR15 rifles that were both regulated and NOT regulated prior to 2013.
The NOT regulated was the copy of the Hbar. Yes, bushmaster makes and HBAR. My dad got one prior to the Oct 2013 change and it was 4473 and out the door.
If the law had NOT been written ambiguous, it would have listed a Manufacturer and a Model for ALL of the rifles or at least listed Model # next to Bushmaster.
the "list" MSP put out was sometime AFTER Oct 2013 but not immediately after it
When my dad went to sell his Bushmaster HBAR, he had to pick an FFL to sell in Va.
Then MSP not seeing the MFG listed on the ban list, interpreted it as anything form Bushmaster the company

So, one COULD write a letter and show a picture of both a Bushmaster Brand AR 15 HBAR and a GWINN Bushmaster and ask MSP, which one are they referring to.

silver78 · Jun 23, 2021

While I am not an attorney I do not see how any state could pass a law banning a certain brand of rifle if other manufacturers made an identical item that was legal to sell. That said our lawmakers often create unlawful legislation and that's why the courts overturn laws from time to time. FWIW I personally would avoid the Bushmaster brand at this time. Just not worth the possible hassle. YMMV

Threeband · Jun 23, 2021

Melnic said:
To add to what 3band says,
This is what was originally banned:
GWINN Bushmaster Rifle
https://www.rockislandauction.com/detail/64/3731/gwinn-firearms-bushmaster-rifle-556-mm

There were Bushmaster brand AR15 rifles that were both regulated and NOT regulated prior to 2013.
The NOT regulated was the copy of the Hbar. Yes, bushmaster makes and HBAR. My dad got one prior to the Oct 2013 change and it was 4473 and out the door.
If the law had NOT been written ambiguous, it would have listed a Manufacturer and a Model for ALL of the rifles or at least listed Model # next to Bushmaster.
the "list" MSP put out was sometime AFTER Oct 2013 but not immediately after it
When my dad went to sell his Bushmaster HBAR, he had to pick an FFL to sell in Va.
Then MSP not seeing the MFG listed on the ban list, interpreted it as anything form Bushmaster the company

So, one COULD write a letter and show a picture of both a Bushmaster Brand AR 15 HBAR and a GWINN Bushmaster and ask MSP, which one are they referring to.

Exactly.

My point was that right through 2013 (eleven years after the Beltway shootings) MSP knew perfectly well that the Bushmaster brand HBAR was not the same as the Bushmaster Rifle on the Ban list.

They know, or at least they knew.

I see it as a trashy four-flushing way to "punish" us for giving them such a hard time in 2013.
Likewise after Woolard was shot down, they hit us with stricter "wear and carry" regulations.

Spitefulness.

I just want to preserve the awareness within our community.

Pinecone · Jun 24, 2021

silver78 said:
While I am not an attorney I do not see how any state could pass a law banning a certain brand of rifle if other manufacturers made an identical item that was legal to sell. That said our lawmakers often create unlawful legislation and that's why the courts overturn laws from time to time. FWIW I personally would avoid the Bushmaster brand at this time. Just not worth the possible hassle. YMMV

They can pass any law. The law would need to go to court to determine if it was valid or not.

No one has been willing to fight for Bushmaster, INCLUDING Bushmaster.

Allen65 · Jun 24, 2021

Pinecone said:
No one has been willing to fight for Bushmaster, INCLUDING Bushmaster.

From the company's POV, it would cost more in legal costs than they would probably make in profit from sales in MD over a decade.

But it should be an easy win if someone was willing to foot the legal bill; banning all of one company's products and only that one company's products is a Bill of Attainder, which is specifically banned in COTUS (Article 1, Section 3).

Bushmaster ARs - are they all banned?

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