Tungsten
Ultimate Member
An thoughts on their opinions/findings?
http://www.guns.com/2013/11/21/knife-v-gun-changing-think-21-foot-rule-video/
http://www.guns.com/2013/11/21/knife-v-gun-changing-think-21-foot-rule-video/
Gun vs Knife Videos.
- Thread starter Tungsten
- Start date
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Excellent video thanks, first seen for me.
Point is, there are other possible ways to survive a knife attack, and dropping to the ground, or diving/rolling away might get you enough time and space to escape, or fight back.
Most knife attacks I've seen video of or heard about; the attacker just gets as close to the victim as possible then starts violently stabbing without warning. So the additional lesson to the principles of create space - reactionary gap is to try to avoid being in that situation to begin with.
Awareness, avoidance, sure; but once you've been stabbed a few times what do you try to do then? Lets get together with some rubber knives and airsoft pistols and figure it out together. Anyone interested?
Well, anytime you get off the "X" you buy yourself some precious, life saving time. Usually.
The buying time move still requires a person to add time to draw their weapon. Would it be fair to say that most people would draw to a 2 handed shooting position?
Now calculate the time from when someone is bent elbow out of the holster to the time they are extended out breaking off their first shot. That could be the time it would take for them to roll out of the way. Then they would still have to draw the weapon.
My personal opinion would be to learn how to nail the bent elbow shot immediately after you break leather.
The only way I really see this as an advantage would be if while in the mid air ninja leap/roll the person was able to draw their weapon and be on target when they landed. Instead of still having to draw after they landed.
Try to this roll on a gravel pavement or asphalt instead of a nice, cushy mat room. I am sure results will be different.
Another note. When it comes to these self defense "acrobatics"
, you need to see how valuable good quality and properly worn holsters and belts are. Imagine grappling and rolling on the ground with one of those lame, thin neoprene, plastic pant clip uncle mikes POS holsters and what it would do in a tussle.
Or the beloved crossbreed and copy cat holsters that are so loved here. Very difficult to properly draw ( quick, sharp upward snap ) while you may be on the ground laying on that side. Or cheap, thin mens (pleather) dress belts used for a gun carry. Floppy and will not support a decent gun and holster.
I don't see the average citizen being athletic enough to be supercool like this. But neat otherwise.
The buying time move still requires a person to add time to draw their weapon. Would it be fair to say that most people would draw to a 2 handed shooting position?
Now calculate the time from when someone is bent elbow out of the holster to the time they are extended out breaking off their first shot. That could be the time it would take for them to roll out of the way. Then they would still have to draw the weapon.
My personal opinion would be to learn how to nail the bent elbow shot immediately after you break leather.
The only way I really see this as an advantage would be if while in the mid air ninja leap/roll the person was able to draw their weapon and be on target when they landed. Instead of still having to draw after they landed.
Try to this roll on a gravel pavement or asphalt instead of a nice, cushy mat room. I am sure results will be different.
Another note. When it comes to these self defense "acrobatics"
, you need to see how valuable good quality and properly worn holsters and belts are. Imagine grappling and rolling on the ground with one of those lame, thin neoprene, plastic pant clip uncle mikes POS holsters and what it would do in a tussle.Or the beloved crossbreed and copy cat holsters that are so loved here. Very difficult to properly draw ( quick, sharp upward snap ) while you may be on the ground laying on that side. Or cheap, thin mens (pleather) dress belts used for a gun carry. Floppy and will not support a decent gun and holster.
I don't see the average citizen being athletic enough to be supercool like this. But neat otherwise.
- Dec 27, 2012
- 30,178
The back engage scene is a good way to shoot someone who's running to catch the bus. Good for him if he can identify a threat that quickly. Interesting video.
rummy
Active Member
- Jan 11, 2008
- 417
rummy
Active Member
- Jan 11, 2008
- 417
truth be told, Bama - this video is dumb dumb dumb.
while i appreciate thinking outside of the box and challenging commonly held beliefs, there is entirely way too much SpecOpsDeltaSEALbro going on with the rolling and inverted-360-SUL shooting happening.
that being said, getting off the X and changing levels is good stuff to work on for sure. the only redeemable aspect of the rolling that i can see is that -as opposed to running, where the bad guy is chasing you - their momentum takes them in the opposite direction, giving you some more time.
while i appreciate thinking outside of the box and challenging commonly held beliefs, there is entirely way too much SpecOpsDeltaSEALbro going on with the rolling and inverted-360-SUL shooting happening.
that being said, getting off the X and changing levels is good stuff to work on for sure. the only redeemable aspect of the rolling that i can see is that -as opposed to running, where the bad guy is chasing you - their momentum takes them in the opposite direction, giving you some more time.
alucard0822
For great Justice
This doesn't prove the Tuler drill is a "myth", far from it. The original theory was that it takes about the same 2-3 seconds for someone to run 21 feet and cut you as it does for a modestly trained officer to draw and fire. That isn't to say you can't use hand to hand tactics, and movement to avoid getting cut, and allowing additional time to draw and fire. It also doesn't mean instant death once someone with a knife reaches you, or if you manage to draw and fire, both start racking up injuries, and start the clock to bleedout or incapacitation. The acceptance of the 21ft rule HELPS the good guy with the gun avoid prosecution, it is an effective argument against the fallacy that a knife is less deadly, a knife wielding attacker is not dangerous past arms length, and in turn that drawing and firing on a knife wielding attacker 20' away is not justified.
While their tactics are good, they are very advanced, although I agree there are some methods that are under-taught in most CCW classes. Drawing and firing while moving away diagonally, firing from retension, firing from guard position(flat on back on the ground), defensive strikes with the weak hand, striking with the firearm, close quarters retension, even basic hold breaks, punches and kicks can be valuable, and easy for intermediate shooters to learn and use. They do help get people away from the static immobile "stand and fire" drills, and can help teach techniques to maintain retension, avoid shooting your weak hand, and avoid getting off your base of balance, while offering ways to get your rounds on target with little to no distance, or while grappling with an attacker.
While their tactics are good, they are very advanced, although I agree there are some methods that are under-taught in most CCW classes. Drawing and firing while moving away diagonally, firing from retension, firing from guard position(flat on back on the ground), defensive strikes with the weak hand, striking with the firearm, close quarters retension, even basic hold breaks, punches and kicks can be valuable, and easy for intermediate shooters to learn and use. They do help get people away from the static immobile "stand and fire" drills, and can help teach techniques to maintain retension, avoid shooting your weak hand, and avoid getting off your base of balance, while offering ways to get your rounds on target with little to no distance, or while grappling with an attacker.
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