Encounter at the AGC Pistol Range

TruGroove62 · Nov 25, 2020

Abide by rules

I've been to the range being referenced, however, cease fire means stop immediately. I remember when I purchased a new gun and just when I was going to fire it for the first time - cease fire was called. I pleaded with the guy (It was a deagle) to fire at least once. He said, "No". That was that. Rules are in place for everyone's safety!!

Alan3413 · Nov 25, 2020

TruGroove62 said:
I've been to the range being referenced, however, cease fire means stop immediately. I remember when I purchased a new gun and just when I was going to fire it for the first time - cease fire was called. I pleaded with the guy (It was a deagle) to fire at least once. He said, "No". That was that. Rules are in place for everyone's safety!!

You don't want to be "that guy" at the range when everyone's making their weapon safe and you hear a "Boom!".

JamesCanby · Nov 25, 2020

Since I was referenced several times in this thread, I thought it appropriate to respond.

1. No matter who -- RSO or Badgeholder -- uses the command "Cease Fire" it is an absolute requirement that every person on that specific range must immediately stop firing and make their firearms safe according to AGC definition: Actions Open, Magazines Out, ECIs properly inserted, muzzles oriented downrange. Our ceasefire protocol exceeds the standard NRA definition of "Cease Fire" wherein NRA states the when anyone gives that command, all shooters are to immediately stop firing and await further instruction.

2. Given the disparity in the numbers of shooters on the different ranges, it is typical that the on-duty RSO will allow the shooters on the 50yd range to self-govern while he or she manages the multiple other ranges on the property, both at the Barnes level and "up top." This is especially true on weekdays when there is only one RSO on duty on each shift. Even so, I and some of the other RSOs make it a habit to walk to the 50yd range as they finish up a ceasefire on the 100yd range just to see how the shooters are doing.

3. There are some times where both the 50-yd and the 100-yd ranges are so populated that the RSO will call a ceasefire on the 100-yd range on the hour and half-hour and then call it on the 50-yd range at quarter-after and quarter-till -- but that is fairly rare. We depend on the cooperation of everyone on the usually less-populated 50-yard range to govern themselves politely and in compliance with the Range Rules.

4. If there IS a confrontation as was described in this thread, the RSO should be contacted immediately and asked to intervene. The phone number for the Barnes Office has been posted here and it's on your badge, but it might be more efficient to send a "runner" to get the RSO.

5. Lastly, I am confused by some of the postings indicating that the problem person was not a current Badgeholder -- if that was so, he could not have brought guests to the range. Only badgeholders can bring guests. If it WAS a badgeholder and it was one of his guests that continued firing, then the Badgeholder would have been cited for the infraction and proper actions taken.

If there is a "bottom-line" to this kind of situation, it is this: Get the RSO involved as soon as possible. That's what we're there for.

By the way: What was the actual date on which this occurred? If he was a badgeholder and he had guests, he will have been logged in to the Guest System and I might be able to identify who he was.

Jim Landerkin
Supervisory Chief Range Safety Officer
Associated Gun Clubs of Baltimore

GMG66 · Nov 25, 2020

Would kinda make me nervous about putting up a new target, are they gonna cease fire or not.

Overwatch326 · Nov 25, 2020

JamesCanby said:
Since I was referenced several times in this thread, I thought it appropriate to respond.

1. No matter who -- RSO or Badgeholder -- uses the command "Cease Fire" it is an absolute requirement that every person on that specific range must immediately stop firing and make their firearms safe according to AGC definition: Actions Open, Magazines Out, ECIs properly inserted, muzzles oriented downrange. Our ceasefire protocol exceeds the standard NRA definition of "Cease Fire" wherein NRA states the when anyone gives that command, all shooters are to immediately stop firing and await further instruction.

2. Given the disparity in the numbers of shooters on the different ranges, it is typical that the on-duty RSO will allow the shooters on the 50yd range to self-govern while he or she manages the multiple other ranges on the property, both at the Barnes level and "up top." This is especially true on weekdays when there is only one RSO on duty on each shift. Even so, I and some of the other RSOs make it a habit to walk to the 50yd range as they finish up a ceasefire on the 100yd range just to see how the shooters are doing.

3. There are some times where both the 50-yd and the 100-yd ranges are so populated that the RSO will call a ceasefire on the 100-yd range on the hour and half-hour and then call it on the 50-yd range at quarter-after and quarter-till -- but that is fairly rare. We depend on the cooperation of everyone on the usually less-populated 50-yard range to govern themselves politely and in compliance with the Range Rules.

4. If there IS a confrontation as was described in this thread, the RSO should be contacted immediately and asked to intervene. The phone number for the Barnes Office has been posted here and it's on your badge, but it might be more efficient to send a "runner" to get the RSO.

5. Lastly, I am confused by some of the postings indicating that the problem person was not a current Badgeholder -- if that was so, he could not have brought guests to the range. Only badgeholders can bring guests. If it WAS a badgeholder and it was one of his guests that continued firing, then the Badgeholder would have been cited for the infraction and proper actions taken.

If there is a "bottom-line" to this kind of situation, it is this: Get the RSO involved as soon as possible. That's what we're there for.

By the way: What was the actual date on which this occurred? If he was a badgeholder and he had guests, he will have been logged in to the Guest System and I might be able to identify who he was.

Jim Landerkin
Supervisory Chief Range Safety Officer
Associated Gun Clubs of Baltimore

Saturday the 14th; I was sitting in the Barnes Range House waiting for a club meeting to start when I saw him come back to sign out his guest. That was somewhere between 15:30-16:15. Yellow wristbands, if it matters.

Just quick credit to the RSOs: There were only two on duty that day; one was handling administrative stuff, the other was supervising the rifle range, which was full; the lady inside, who is always super helpful and polite, told me they had a ton of guests that day for training and walkthroughs, so they were very busy.

JamesCanby · Nov 25, 2020

Thanks for the information.

GBender326 said:
Saturday the 14th; I was sitting in the Barnes Range House waiting for a club meeting to start when I saw him come back to sign out his guest. That was somewhere between 15:30-16:15. Yellow wristbands, if it matters.

I'll check on it tomorrow when I'm back at the range to see if I can discern who that badgeholder might have been.

Oh ... wait ... YELLOW wristbands? That indicates that he was an Instructor with one of the AGC Certified Instructor Organizations and this situation will be handled differently than if he was "just" a badgeholder. Thanks again. If necessary it would be useful to have your contact information. You can email it to me: jim@landerkin.com.

Huck Hound · Nov 25, 2020

Whats AGC?

Overwatch326 · Nov 25, 2020

JamesCanby said:
I'll check on it tomorrow when I'm back at the range to see if I can discern who that badgeholder might have been.

Oh ... wait ... YELLOW wristbands? That indicates that he was an Instructor with one of the AGC Certified Instructor Organizations and this situation will be handled differently than if he was "just" a badgeholder. Thanks again. If necessary it would be useful to have your contact information. You can email it to me: jim@landerkin.com.

I'll PM you my info.

JamesCanby · Nov 25, 2020

Huck Hound said:
Whats AGC?

Associated Gun Clubs of Maryland.

CanDoEZ · Nov 25, 2020

JamesCanby said:
I'll check on it tomorrow when I'm back at the range to see if I can discern who that badgeholder might have been.

Oh ... wait ... YELLOW wristbands? That indicates that he was an Instructor with one of the AGC Certified Instructor Organizations and this situation will be handled differently than if he was "just" a badgeholder.

I think a tracking radar just went into high PRF target acquisition mode...

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

rseymorejr · Nov 25, 2020

ParaFan said:
And just for your information, not all Biden voters are anti-gun.

And just for your information, ALL Biden voters support anti-gun policies.

Skipjacks · Nov 25, 2020

CanDoEZ said:
I think a tracking radar just went into high PRF target acquisition mode...

Right!?

Gonna have to make some popcorn to watch these fireworks

rseymorejr · Nov 25, 2020

GBender326 said:
...He had his wife with the XD, was standing past the firing line with her, coaching her, and they just kept doing their thing; ...

JamesCanby said:
Since I was referenced several times in this thread, I thought it appropriate to respond.
...

Jim Landerkin
Supervisory Chief Range Safety Officer
Associated Gun Clubs of Baltimore

The part in red above, from the OP, was what really got my attention. Yikes! (unless I'm misinterpreting that part)

Oh and have a great Thanksgiving!

HiStandards · Nov 25, 2020

Nevermind

Gcs7th · Nov 25, 2020

JamesCanby said:
I'll check on it tomorrow when I'm back at the range to see if I can discern who that badgeholder might have been.

Thanks for investigating.

rwbow1969 · Nov 25, 2020

teratos said:
You are, in theory, a grown man. There are few activities that can become more dangerous than shooting quick, fast, and in a hurry. When someone calls for a cease fire at a shooting range, the mature and responsible thing to do is to put your f*cking gun down and find out why. It's shooting etiquette. People who don't follow it should be shunned.

This^^^

"Cease Fire" or "Cold Range"..... either or means stop.

What a dick.

JamesCanby · Nov 25, 2020

rseymorejr said:
The part in red above, from the OP, was what really got my attention. Yikes! (unless I'm misinterpreting that part)

Oh and have a great Thanksgiving!

Bob, I'm not certain what "firing line" he was referring to.

Jim

Overwatch326 · Nov 25, 2020

JamesCanby said:
Bob, I'm not certain what "firing line" he was referring to.

Jim

Hi Jim, I was referring to the white line painted on the downrange side of the concrete pad, right in front of each station in each lane; it's referenced in Section I, C. General Range Safety Rules, No. 21:

"21. The Firing Line on the 50, 100 (lanes 1-90) and 200-yard ranges is the forward edge of the Concrete Pad. In the bench rest area (lanes 91-100) the firing line is in the red zone. (C2)"

I was under the impression that no one except the shooter is to be forward of that line while the range is hot, hence why I pointed it out.

It occurred to me just now that it might've come off like I was saying they were forward of the concrete pad--this was not the case, but she was at her position forward of the line, and he was also forward of the line next to her, at the same station.

Steelteacher · Nov 25, 2020

Ceasefires are mandatory and there’s no excuse. Pull out your cell phone and videotape (dating myself) that person if there’s no RSO and they ignore a ceasefire. Then get an RSO, and offer to show them the video when you bring them over. There’s no excuse.

The Solar Warrior · Nov 25, 2020

rwbow1969 said:
This^^^

"Cease Fire" or "Cold Range"..... either or means stop.

What a dick.

I dunno. On the "grown man" theory. I was at Delmarva last week and the guy next to me started yelling "stop!!!" in a panicked voice when one of my AR's casings flew onto his table.

Public ranges can be special places sometimes.

Encounter at the AGC Pistol Range

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