Squaregrouper's SHTF Water Info Thread

I have a question.

I live in Colorado and I routinely camp above 10,000' in elevation. Up here water boils at a lower temperature. At 11,000' water boils around 190 degrees. Is that temperature high enough to safely kill any nasties in the water?

Great thread! We have life straws for possible evac. We also have a water bob for the tub in case of 'bug in' for storms or other natural disasters but the problem there is knowing when to fill it. A friend uses one of these that he keeps in a place that is easy to drain/clean/refill and I've got it on my list to set up the same.

http://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/product/leg-style-storage-tank-35-gal

I too got suckered into a BOB Lifestraw.

AntiGun said:

I gave one to a guy who went to Africa, he didn't die yet so I suppose it does something. Some interesting videos on youtube showing people using these for gross water.

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Did he bless the rains down there?

Have Lifestraws but have never used them.

eruby said:

Did he bless the rains down there?

Have Lifestraws but have never used them.

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Maybe not in toto...

OP CONTINUING THREAD... (The post surgery meds told me it was bedtime last night)
I will do my best to explain this in everyday terms, so as to not be confusing.
There are three main categories we need to be concerned about before drinking water:
Biologicals- bacteria, viruses, parasites, et al
Contaminants- non living toxins
Particulates- mud, trash, etc
Before going further, I will explain mechanical filter porosity/size entrapment. Filter sizing is expressed in microns, which shows the efficiency at which it can remove things, in microns. The average human hair is ~50 microns wide- split a hair lengthwise 50x and the strand will be roughly 1 micron. The problem is that the finer the filtration, the faster it will clog. EX- A spider thread is roughly 5 microns. We typically see water condensation on the thread, not the thread itself. Anyways...
The following biological contaminants are commonly encountered in America:
Giardia Cysts- 8-14 microns
Crytosporidium- 4-6 microns
Bacteria- .2-1 micron
Viruses- .004-.1 micron
Any filter that is fine enough to trap bacteria and/or viruses will most likely clog within the first few ounces of water- unless under pressure (think reverse osmosis) If a manufacturer claims their product will trap bacteria and viruses, the filter will clog almost immediately, or they are lying to you.
Particulate filters should be used for particulates- not for biologicals or chemicals.
Colloidal Silver works well at deactivating/killing bacteria and viruses, provided the dwell/contact time is >2 minutes.
Carbon filters are quite effective at removing chemicals from the water, provided the dwell time/speed is slow enough. (makes water taste better as well)
Chemical Oxidizers work well at "eating"/dissolving bacteria and viruses:
1- Chlorine is the most common. Bear in mind that UV rays from sunlight break down chlorine very quickly. It is best purchased as granular shock treatment and available with pool supplies. 1/4 cup mixed with a quart of water will be similar to a quart of Clorox. 1tsp of that solution will kill most biologicals in a gallon of water. As you can see, a pound of shock treatment will last a long time.
2- Another good oxidizer is potassium permangenate, which is sold to clean manganese greensand filters and available at anyplace that sells well water treatment equipment- if they sell softener salt, they have it. It is very potent, and a small pinch/.25g will treat a gallon of water. The phrase is "If its pink, its safe to drink" (as far as organisms go). Purple water means you used too much. Experiment with it before water is a commodity. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YmtjdQlWGdA

Steam distillation- works great for purifying water, but requires a lot of fuel, time and equipment.
Boiling- ONLY kills biologicals; it doesn't remove anything.

Municipal/chlorinated city water- the water heater and toilet reservoirs hold water which should be safe to drink. I do not recommend this for well water unless it is chemically treated.

With that being said, for SHTF scenarios, I recommend the following...
Home:
Rainwater collection system or access to moving water. Filter it to 1 micron (ideally in several stages), chlorinate it then filter through carbon just before drinking- not upon collection or you face potential recontamination.
Bug Out/Camping:
Commercial backpacker's filter, a small vial of potassium permanganate and a cup.

I hope this helped. Feel free to ask any relevant questions.

I have a few of the Sawyer system filters. Their website says the Sawyer MINI Water Filter is rated to 0.1 micron absolute. If that is true, then based on what you said above, they should clog quickly. I have tested two of the ones I currently own and they worked pretty well without clogging, granted I started with a relatively safe water source to begin with (one was well water on a farm, the other was out at Loch Raven). Would it be safe to assume the water did not have a lot of bacteria to begin with? There was not a lot of visible particulate matter to begin with (at least with my tired eyes).

km04 said:

I have a few of the Sawyer system filters. Their website says the Sawyer MINI Water Filter is rated to 0.1 micron absolute. If that is true, then based on what you said above, they should clog quickly. I have tested two of the ones I currently own and they worked pretty well without clogging, granted I started with a relatively safe water source to begin with (one was well water on a farm, the other was out at Loch Raven). Would it be safe to assume the water did not have a lot of bacteria to begin with? There was not a lot of visible particulate matter to begin with (at least with my tired eyes).

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If it truly filters to .1 microns, it won't take much to clog it. Think of it this way- pluck a hair out of your head and slice it lengthwise, 100 times. That "invisible" .5 micron sliver of hair is still 4x too large to pass through that filter, as advertised.
I would be surprised if it was able to filter more than a few gallons of "clean" reservoir water before clogging.

squaregrouper said:

If it truly filters to .1 microns, it won't take much to clog it. Think of it this way- pluck a hair out of your head and slice it lengthwise, 100 times. That "invisible" .5 micron sliver of hair is still 4x too large to pass through that filter, as advertised.
I would be surprised if it was able to filter more than a few gallons of "clean" reservoir water before clogging.

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Thanks for the information. This gives me better insight as to how it should work if ever in a bad situation. In the videos on their website, the water flows pretty damned quickly.

Plus they do come with a back flush syringe for cleaning the filters.

km04 said:

Plus they do come with a back flush syringe for cleaning the filters.

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You will need clean water to back flush it properly. If you use the water to be filtered, you're back to square one.

squaregrouper said:

You will need clean water to back flush it properly. If you use the water to be filtered, you're back to square one.

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Thanks. I did get that part right from the instructions. I bought extra bags and have already marked some "clean" and "dirty". Fill the "dirty" bags with the source water, filter into the "clean" bags and only clean the filters with water from a "clean" bag using the included syringe.

There are also some water bottles on the market now that will fit the threads of the filter so those are viable backups to the mylar bags. The bags are great, they can be folded for storage, but I am sure all of that folding will eventually wear them out. In a SHTF senario, you can't simply order more online.

Looking forward to the education....

Thanks SG for leading the conversation.




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What do you think about this product? Apparently it is an open cell foam that is treated with a layer of microscopic spikes that mechanically destroy the bacteria and viruses.
http://www.qoresystems.com/products/#products-jump-waterqore-hiw
http://nanoglobal.com/products/nanofilter/

What do you think of solar distillers, and what will and will not be removed?

http://www.motherearthnews.com/renewable-energy/solar-still-zmaz74sozraw.aspx

And another one

http://www.motherearthnews.com/real-food/passive-solar-water-distillation-zmaz02aszgoe.aspx

mvee said:

What do you think about this product? Apparently it is an open cell foam that is treated with a layer of microscopic spikes that mechanically destroy the bacteria and viruses.
http://www.qoresystems.com/products/#products-jump-waterqore-hiw
http://nanoglobal.com/products/nanofilter/

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Qore Systems is in hot water with the FDA for making unsupported claims about their products. They have been claiming blanket "FDA approval", intentionally misleading consumers.

plinkerton said:

What do you think of solar distillers, and what will and will not be removed?

http://www.motherearthnews.com/renewable-energy/solar-still-zmaz74sozraw.aspx

And another one

http://www.motherearthnews.com/real-food/passive-solar-water-distillation-zmaz02aszgoe.aspx

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YES!!! These will absolutely work.

Square,

I've see ads for SteriPens (UV light pen), these would kill biologicals, but not filter out chemicals. Would it then need to be run through an activated charcoal filter for chemical treatment, some other method?

Q

Keep in mind two things about distilled water:

1. It is not advisable to drink distilled water in a long-term situation. The pH will be more acidic than what your body needs and mineral equilibrium will pull essential minerals out of your body.
2. Distilling water does not necessarily make it "pure". The source water may contain VOCs that vaporize at or below the temperature that your water is boiling at. These VOCs will condense along with your "pure" water.