Civility

rseymorejr said:

Thanks for the links. It seems pretty clear that the firearm would need to be entered into the FFL's bound book just like if it was an out of state transfer that was delivered to the FFL. Then the NICS check would be run and if that resulted in a delay then the FFL would have to hang onto the gun until the proceed came back (or 3 days passed) I can see the fee for this being the same as for any other transfer. At least with a handgun we can go to am MSP barracks and pay $10

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Yeah, doubt there would have been any difference in an out of state versus private sale FFL transfer fee had SB737 passed. However, since it did not pass, we do not have to worry about this right now.

fabsroman said:

My side is the same as yours, but you can continue to play this game. You can make it look like I am demeaning EVERYBODY on our side, but I'm not. Believe there were all of two individuals that my post referred to and I believe almost everybody knows who they were. What I wrote was the truth and there is photos and video to prove it.

Is it rude to give the middle finger salute to the committee while testifying? Lots of high fives and back slapping on here for that middle finger salute. Is it rude to scream at legislators from the galley? Plenty of petty insults flying around on here, Twitter, Facebook, etc. from our side aimed at the moms and the legislators, and some of them specifically.

Next, you are going to be screaming that I should be banned, because I am a troll and an emasculated husband of one of the "Moms".

Let It Go

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You have been snidely uncivil to many folks here.

fabsroman said:

I always try my dashing good looks, dazzling smile, witty charm, and art of persuasion first, before I reach for the baseball bat.

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All 4 foot 2 inches of ya?

Norton said:

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The sense of self-righteousness in the moral imperative of their cause makes them arrogant and abusive.


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This, in a nutshell. Amplified in their social media channels.

That Gail Gunn story is great, lol.

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My approach when in person with any legislator or person of influence:

1. Catch the person's attention
2. Greet them with as much of a smile and eye contact as I can muster
3. Say "Hi" plus their title + name
4. Hold my hand out for a shake if in a position to do so
5. State my question or comment
6. Discuss, time allowing: keep goals in mind, be as concise as possible
7. Polite goodbye, often with reminder about the most important point.

While I have nearly nothing politically in common with my MGA legislators (Sen. Guzzone, Dels. Pendergrass, Atterbeary, Terrasa), I follow the above formula every time. Sometimes I get the handshake. I don't think Sen. Guzzone likes to talk to people who are common folk outside of the political class. (Decode: I don't think he likes me very much.) Just my impression going back to when he was my delegate.

PowPow said:

I don't think Sen. Guzzone likes to talk to people who are common folk outside of the political class.

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As if that mess oughta surprise anyone?

Norton said:

This behavior from their side goes back at least a couple of decades for us now old timers from that period. The names and faces change, but the behavior does not.

The sense of self-righteousness in the moral imperative of their cause makes them arrogant and abusive.

One of the most epic moments from those early days was when the current flavor of the gun banners was Leah Barrett. Ironically her real name was Gail Gunn, but she didn't use that name.

I had a bunch of stickers made up that said, "Who is Gail Gunn and why is she living with Leah Barett's husband?" just to watch her head explode. She would literally dissolve into speaking in tongues just because she couldn't fathom that anyone would disagree with her.

The lulz were also epic the day that they arrogantly came in and put reserved stickers on all of the chairs in the hearing room. I went over to the trooper managing the room and asked if they could do that and he replied "No".

He then took the stickers off and when Leah/Gail came back in they got to see all of us sitting their with our MSI hats on with shit eating grins. She once again went all Exorcist and stomped out of the room in tears.

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That's great history! And deliciously funny!

teratos said:

You have been snidely uncivil to many folks here.

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You’re 100% correct

And anyone who wants infringements is not only anti 2a but also pro gun control

Sides, they matter

44man said:

You’re 100% correct

And anyone who wants infringements is not only anti 2a but also pro gun control

Sides, they matter

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I could probably support a “machine gun qualification license” in exchange for repealin the Hughes Amendment. How to git it? Just demonstrate you can handle the damn thang without it gittin away from ya like what happened to some poor little girl with a Mac-10 I think it was.

That’d probably make the daughters of Stalin have a meltdown though.

fabsroman said:

Ah, everybody has already forgotten the two finger salute to the committee and then the head of PP posing for a pic with the same person and both giving the two finger salute. Already forgotten the yelling from the galley too.

Yeah, it was ONLY the moms that were rude. lol Luckily for us, it was only the moms that were rude on April 8th.

Then, we have a post here insulting their husbands. Heck, their husbands are probably out earning $1,000,000 a year and happy as hell that their wives have a "hobby" group to keep them occupied. We can all speculate about what their husbands are like.

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LOL C'mon, man! Surely, you don't think the two-finger salute even phased them, do you? Being flipped-off was probably one of the milder displays of contempt they experienced during this session. If I could've been there, they would've heard far worse than what giving them the two-finger salute expressed.

I would've told them that they were, collectively, the most inept, dysfunctional, out-of-touch self-important, self-righteous group of people to ever call themselves 'legislators' in the history of MD and we, the residents, demand an apology for the abomination of BS bills being considered that did absolutely nothing to address the real problems of this state. Fvck them. My respect is earned, not automatically given. If anything, the two-finger salute was...too kind for scumbags who thought they had nothing better to do than persecute law-abiding residents with their pet causes. They are a fvcking disgrace.

teratos said:

With few exceptions, our side is much more polite than “theirs”.

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I'd like to agree except a number of people have been felled by the circular firing squad.

fabsroman said:

Ah, everybody has already forgotten the two finger salute to the committee and then the head of PP posing for a pic with the same person and both giving the two finger salute. Already forgotten the yelling from the galley too.

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While I agree with Mark's approach and work within MSI to achieve 2A goals important to me, I don't think that the public (or the media for that matter) will blame those that react (nonviolently and within the law) on an issue where one side works assiduously to curtail rights/liberties/protections from the other side. If we had political power and were seeking to limit something they valued (say voting rights in a manner that specifically affected their group more than ours), I would expect them to react with anger. From the left, when it matters to them, they'll stage sit-ins, die-ins, march on streets to stop traffic, etc. What have we done in terms of civil disobedience/law breaking that rises to this level? Mostly, some of our guys wore edgy t-shirts, and people here gave them grief for this. We also had a cool aerial banner event.

We had one citizen give legislators the bird at 2-3am after a long day of testimony because they were seeking to go back on their HBAR exception (that some argued was given to allow passage of other FSA 2013 regulations) and had a chief sponsor going through the motions. We had the same guy pose for photos with a co-leader of a 2A activist group. I doubt any in Annapolis noted or cared.

More specifically, as per Mark's point, I think it's important how we directly interact with legislators. Sure, people might post curt comments on this forum at times, but its readership is mostly limited to people with similar opinions. The comments aren't broadcast on Twitter with a hashtag that will dump it into a legislator or aide's feed. Not saying that we don't challenge them online in Twitter or Facebook, as we should try to argue positions. Like a number of people here, I personally wrote Democratic party legislators this last legislative session and presented my situation and how these laws might impact me. It is the impression that we make in these correspondences and in their offices where it is important to convey civility/respect, and most everyone that I interact with personally on this board has been courteous and respectful. In the PP Facebook videos, you see this as well when they engage the other side in discussion (I watched a longform discussion with an MDA mom there yesterday). If Mark is correct and some of the advocates on the other side are dealing with legislators and/or their staff rudely or with a sense of entitlement, I'm not surprised that this approach isn't working out for them.

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Sling Blade said:

I could probably support a “machine gun qualification license” in exchange for repealin the Hughes Amendment. How to git it? Just demonstrate you can handle the damn thang without it gittin away from ya like what happened to some poor little girl with a Mac-10 I think it was.

That’d probably make the daughters of Stalin have a meltdown though.

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The whole nfa is BS, infringements on our 2a rights

If a man walks free in the streets he should be able to arm himself and defend himself and own whatever he can afford to defend himself from all enemies, foreign and domestic without having to bow to the government and do background checks to do so. If you are not encarcerated or institutionalized your not prohibited, easy peasy.

To say anything else is against the bill of rights and the constitution and wrong

And that guy should not have let that little girl shoot that weapon without giving her a bit of training

44man said:

You’re 100% correct

And anyone who wants infringements is not only anti 2a but also pro gun control

Sides, they matter

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Seems that those that support gun control have the least amount of self control. I guess since they can’t control themselves they want to project their insecurities on others.

Thank you Teratos.

Sling Blade said:

I could probably support a “machine gun qualification license” in exchange for repealin the Hughes Amendment. How to git it? Just demonstrate you can handle the damn thang without it gittin away from ya like what happened to some poor little girl with a Mac-10 I think it was.

That’d probably make the daughters of Stalin have a meltdown though.

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I believe it was an Uzi.

Ammo Jon said:

Seems that those that support gun control have the least amount of self control. I guess since they can’t control themselves they want to project their insecurities on others.

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Correct, they have no self control and they’re scared of everything

Leftists always think everyone should bow down to their fears and inadequacies and that since they’re scared of their own shadow then the government should regulate shadows for everyone to keep themselves from hurting themselves or other.

squaregrouper said:

Speaking of which, the 6.5 Creedmoor is a modified .30 TC case, not .308

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fabsroman said:

Yeah, splitting hairs. The .30 TC was based on the .308 Win. Thing is, .308 Win can be formed into 6.5 and the two cartridges are pretty close other than neck size.

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It isn't splitting hairs. They may look similar, but getting from point A to point B is a tough road to traverse.
The .30 TC came from .308 and 6.5 CM came from .30 TC. Yes, one can convert .308 brass to 6.5 CM, but neck turning and the case wrinkles make it quite difficult. Conversely, converting .243 to 6.5 CM is a piece of cake. Converting .22-250 isn't tough either. Converting .308 to 6.5 CM is enough of a pain that very few people do so.

ETA- My initial post was to point out the hypocrisy of the post I responded to.

Zzzzz_man said:

LOL C'mon, man! Surely, you don't think the two-finger salute even phased them, do you? Being flipped-off was probably one of the milder displays of contempt they experienced during this session. If I could've been there, they would've heard far worse than what giving them the two-finger salute expressed.

I would've told them that they were, collectively, the most inept, dysfunctional, out-of-touch self-important, self-righteous group of people to ever call themselves 'legislators' in the history of MD and we, the residents, demand an apology for the abomination of BS bills being considered that did absolutely nothing to address the real problems of this state. Fvck them. My respect is earned, not automatically given. If anything, the two-finger salute was...too kind for scumbags who thought they had nothing better to do than persecute law-abiding residents with their pet causes. They are a fvcking disgrace.

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What we all wish we could say. Saaaalute!

With all four fingers, btw.

fidelity said:

In the PP Facebook videos, you see this as well when they engage the other side in discussion (I watched a longform discussion with an MDA mom there yesterday). If Mark is correct and some of the advocates on the other side are dealing with legislators and/or their staff rudely or with a sense of entitlement, I'm not surprised that this approach isn't working out for them.

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We actually had two long form video interviews yesterday and I was honestly shocked that they both hung in there for that long. The first one was easier to speak with, the second had an annoying habit of every time we used a non firearm analogy she would say "there you go getting off track again".