Interesting due process argument....

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  • Bagpiperer

    Active Member
    Mar 23, 2013
    291
    Eh. Grandfather clauses should really be unconstitutional under the 14th Amendment, but then the grabbers would go for straight confiscation. Which is one of the reasons those laws don't generally get appealed to SCotUS.

    Bottom line is, gun control is unconstitutional, and a bad idea. Of course, elitists like Mikey Bloomberg and the ignorant tools they use to gin up support for gun bans think the idea of an armed citizenry is scary. Unfortunately, given the vagaries of the various Supreme Courts we've had since 1934, nobody's really wanted to push the issue. With Heller in hand, we can start pushing back, but it's going to be an incremental process building the case law without pushing it a bridge too far and giving the anti-gun folks a favorable precedent.
     
    Last edited:

    Les Gawlik

    Ultimate Member
    Apr 2, 2009
    3,384
    Many of us, myself included, have argued here that restrictions on 2A rights should be analogized to "abortion rights". Virtually any restriction on abortion is unconstitutional, while lawmakers get giddy conjuring up the next hurdles for legal gun ownership. The difference? 2A is clearly written in the BoR, and "abortion rights" were made up whole cloth by some judges using smoke and mirrors. One right is sacred and inviolate, and the other is meaningless and inconsequential.

    The pro 2A group is learning. In trying to limit abortion, they recently used the argument, "What if it saves just one life?" That emotional argument is hard to beat with more or different emotion. But isn't ironic that one right which does nothing other than eliminate children is as solid as the rock of modern jurisprudence, and the other, which often saves and protects lives has been watered down to meaninglessness?

    It's truly outrageous that the Roe court found a constitutional right for an area the states had traditionally regulated just fine by themselves. That decision forever took the issue of abortion off of the legislative calendar, with the exception of an occasional nip and tuck around the edges. On the other hand, we do not have, and will likely never have, a sweeping 2A opinion creating a similar breadth of rights. And that's in an area which is a positive minefield of conflicting and superseding laws from the federal, state and local government.
     

    jrumann59

    DILLIGAF
    MDS Supporter
    Feb 17, 2011
    14,024
    Many of us, myself included, have argued here that restrictions on 2A rights should be analogized to "abortion rights". Virtually any restriction on abortion is unconstitutional, while lawmakers get giddy conjuring up the next hurdles for legal gun ownership. The difference? 2A is clearly written in the BoR, and "abortion rights" were made up whole cloth by some judges using smoke and mirrors. One right is sacred and inviolate, and the other is meaningless and inconsequential.

    The pro 2A group is learning. In trying to limit abortion, they recently used the argument, "What if it saves just one life?" That emotional argument is hard to beat with more or different emotion. But isn't ironic that one right which does nothing other than eliminate children is as solid as the rock of modern jurisprudence, and the other, which often saves and protects lives has been watered down to meaninglessness?

    It's truly outrageous that the Roe court found a constitutional right for an area the states had traditionally regulated just fine by themselves. That decision forever took the issue of abortion off of the legislative calendar, with the exception of an occasional nip and tuck around the edges. On the other hand, we do not have, and will likely never have, a sweeping 2A opinion creating a similar breadth of rights. And that's in an area which is a positive minefield of conflicting and superseding laws from the federal, state and local government.

    Registration should also follow under the "privacy right" to protect abortion also.
     

    Biggfoot44

    Ultimate Member
    Aug 2, 2009
    32,884
    Yes , there is a whole lot of grounds to attack various anti-gun schemes on Due Process ( and Equal Protection ) grounds. In recent years the major 2A groups have delibertly bypassed those to procede on pure 2A basis. In so doing they have succeded far beyond any initial predictions. So we can't say they were "wrong" . Could pursueing a 4th, 5th , and 14th cases in parallel also work well ? $64 question.
     

    jrumann59

    DILLIGAF
    MDS Supporter
    Feb 17, 2011
    14,024
    I think the only reason why this has not been done is conservatives know this will cement abortion in place. We all know how the conservatives (GOP) feels about abortion.
     

    Big Dog

    Active Member
    Dec 16, 2012
    106
    North East
    Imagine how MOM and his toadies would act if a bill was introduced stating a woman had to provide good and substantial reason to get an abortion and then had to pay a fee to have her medical records checked to see if she qualifies...
     

    tomh

    Active Member
    Jul 21, 2008
    220
    I think the only reason why this has not been done is conservatives know this will cement abortion in place. We all know how the conservatives (GOP) feels about abortion.

    I think you are wildly off base with this comment. Frankly I take exception to it, as I believe in conservative values, but I also pick and choose different sides on a variety of issues.

    To me, a conservative believes in our Constitutional Rights, and they are not truely a conservative if they don't protect them.

    I don't believe it appropriate to link belief in abortion rights to be related in any way to a belief in 2nd Amendment rights. They are different issues and do not necessarily portend how a "conservative" community should deal with 2nd Admendment issues.
     

    tomh

    Active Member
    Jul 21, 2008
    220
    Imagine how MOM and his toadies would act if a bill was introduced stating a woman had to provide good and substantial reason to get an abortion and then had to pay a fee to have her medical records checked to see if she qualifies...

    Imagine how the media would react if you had to provide a good and substantial reason to write or post anything negative about the Government, with severe penalties involved for those who do not get special approval. And of course, the Government spokesperson would be the Agent designated to make the decision for what is good and substantial.
     

    jrumann59

    DILLIGAF
    MDS Supporter
    Feb 17, 2011
    14,024
    I think you are wildly off base with this comment. Frankly I take exception to it, as I believe in conservative values, but I also pick and choose different sides on a variety of issues.

    To me, a conservative believes in our Constitutional Rights, and they are not truely a conservative if they don't protect them.

    I don't believe it appropriate to link belief in abortion rights to be related in any way to a belief in 2nd Amendment rights. They are different issues and do not necessarily portend how a "conservative" community should deal with 2nd Admendment issues.


    In the current political arena the only real options are Democrats (liberals) and Republicans (less Liberal, some say Conservative). The GOP platform has religion and pro life as one of their main planks of their agenda, while The Constitution should be the main plank with those other issues being ancillary issues. GOP panders to evangelicals like the Left panders to the welfare society, the reason why it works for the Left is that group is growing as for Evangelicals they are becoming dinosaurs.
     

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