AAR: Green Ops Defensive Pistol Clinic I

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  • erwos

    The Hebrew Hammer
    MDS Supporter
    Mar 25, 2009
    13,866
    Rockville, MD
    Found on my blog here:
    https://hebrewhammerblog.com/2019/12/10/green-ops-defensive-pistol-clinic-i-aar/

    Can't believe it's been an entire year since I took this clinic. There were some substantial changes for the better, in my opinion, but not having Mike Green around is kind of a bummer - I'm really starting to realize what a phenomenal trainer he is, which I may not have appreciated as much previously.

    It seems like the new rage with trainers is having patch quals. The new Green Ops pistol qual seems like it's going to be a fun one, but more attainable than Jedi's black belt. Someone mentioned to me that JDC has a (rifle?) qual, but I have not seen the specifics yet. I have been mulling over doing a blog-specific "did the training" patch that requires you to have taken two each pistol, shotgun, rifle, and medical classes, plus shot at least two competitions. CCL and hunter ed classes would not count. :)
     

    rkouns2003

    Member
    Jul 22, 2013
    93
    Pasadena
    Hey, I was the bearded fellow to your left. Was a great class. I just signed up for the defensive carbine clinic on Jan 12. I was also to one who mentioned that JDC was doing a patch qual. I had the pleasure of training with Mike Green also in an 8 hr class. Was bummed to learn that he moved to Texas.
     

    erwos

    The Hebrew Hammer
    MDS Supporter
    Mar 25, 2009
    13,866
    Rockville, MD
    Hey, I was the bearded fellow to your left. Was a great class. I just signed up for the defensive carbine clinic on Jan 12. I was also to one who mentioned that JDC was doing a patch qual. I had the pleasure of training with Mike Green also in an 8 hr class. Was bummed to learn that he moved to Texas.
    You did some excellent shooting at the class. Nicely done! I should be at the level II carbine clinic in April.
     

    AssMan

    Meh...
    MDS Supporter
    Jan 27, 2011
    16,211
    Somewhere on the James River, VA
    Did the 8-hour Defensive pistol class today. Going to be tough to get the patch. 3/reload/3 in 4 seconds with no misses ain't easy. With some work, I think I can get there on the others.
     

    erwos

    The Hebrew Hammer
    MDS Supporter
    Mar 25, 2009
    13,866
    Rockville, MD
    Yeah, gotta really practice the reloads for stuff like that. That said, it's not totally insane, you just need to have a 1.5 draw-to-fire, ~.25 splits, and a ~1.5 second reload-to-shot... stringing it all together and keeping it in the A-zone is the trick. Did they have you do it at 10yds or 7yds?

    ETA: I just tried it dry-fire with a SIRT pistol (which has a heavy, slow-ass trigger) on a 1/3 scale target at a simulated 10yds and was able to consistently do it after about ten reps of practice. It's always about doing it on demand!
     

    AssMan

    Meh...
    MDS Supporter
    Jan 27, 2011
    16,211
    Somewhere on the James River, VA
    Yeah, gotta really practice the reloads for stuff like that. That said, it's not totally insane, you just need to have a 1.5 draw-to-fire, ~.25 splits, and a ~1.5 second reload-to-shot... stringing it all together and keeping it in the A-zone is the trick. Did they have you do it at 10yds or 7yds?

    ETA: I just tried it dry-fire with a SIRT pistol (which has a heavy, slow-ass trigger) on a 1/3 scale target at a simulated 10yds and was able to consistently do it after about ten reps of practice. It's always about doing it on demand!

    7 yards. I agree it's possible, and you're right about doing it on demand with an audience. To date, not one patch has been issued. Both instructors (Josh and Luke) made an attempt yesterday and neither passed.

    I need to up my dry fire game.
     

    erwos

    The Hebrew Hammer
    MDS Supporter
    Mar 25, 2009
    13,866
    Rockville, MD
    Seven yards isn't so bad, it just comes down to reload speed (which is practice and having a setup that doesn't suck) and not having a slow draw. Back when they were test driving ideas for the standards, we were doing 10yd head shots on a timer. I was the only one to nail all of them, and I dunno if it was really in the envelope time-wise.
     

    AssMan

    Meh...
    MDS Supporter
    Jan 27, 2011
    16,211
    Somewhere on the James River, VA
    The headshot is (I think) 1.4s from draw at 7 yards. I’m able to do that.

    The 25 yard “Bill Drill” is 7 seconds IIRC. My time was like 7.3 and I had decent hand-sized groups but straddled the A zone with 3 in 3 out.

    I was significantly over time (like 6 seconds) on the 2 strong/2 weak at 7 yards but had never done that before and need to get the transition down. Goal time was 4 seconds IIRC and seems achievable with practice.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     

    Blaster229

    God loves you, I don't.
    MDS Supporter
    Sep 14, 2010
    46,408
    Glen Burnie
    7 yards. I agree it's possible, and you're right about doing it on demand with an audience. To date, not one patch has been issued. Both instructors (Josh and Luke) made an attempt yesterday and neither passed.

    I need to up my dry fire game.

    When it comes to this stuff you need to up your shitty grip/trigger finger shooting game. Many people waste time adjusting their grip, especially after that mag exchange. For me they are definitely a point shooting game.
     
    Last edited:

    AssMan

    Meh...
    MDS Supporter
    Jan 27, 2011
    16,211
    Somewhere on the James River, VA
    When it comes to this stuff you need to up your shitty grip/trigger finger shooting game. Many people waste time adjusting their grip, especially after that mag exchange. For me they are definitely a point shooting game.

    Good point. I find that I don't really need to adjust my stronghold grip much on reloads. My problem with all my pistol shooting is reacquiring the red dot.
     

    erwos

    The Hebrew Hammer
    MDS Supporter
    Mar 25, 2009
    13,866
    Rockville, MD
    Do you know what the carbine patch standards are?
    I am doing some carbine work with Josh after the clinic on Sunday, so I'll try to ask. The likelihood that I'd be able to get that patch is even less than the pistol one, though. :P

    Speaking of which, practicing the handgun standards, I'd say the toughest one to do repeatably is the strong to weak switch. If you lose the dot, you're screwed, but if you have a bad support hand grip, the timing gets pretty rough. The draw-3-reload-3 is just a matter of cranking the reload quickly.
     

    AssMan

    Meh...
    MDS Supporter
    Jan 27, 2011
    16,211
    Somewhere on the James River, VA
    I am doing some carbine work with Josh after the clinic on Sunday, so I'll try to ask. The likelihood that I'd be able to get that patch is even less than the pistol one, though. :P

    Speaking of which, practicing the handgun standards, I'd say the toughest one to do repeatably is the strong to weak switch. If you lose the dot, you're screwed, but if you have a bad support hand grip, the timing gets pretty rough. The draw-3-reload-3 is just a matter of cranking the reload quickly.

    I tried to get the credit card shot from holster in 1.5 yesterday and I'm at like 2.1. That one is going to be hard for me, until I can get the dot on target with consistency. If I have to fish for the dot, it's 2+ seconds. Luckily, I can practice that in the house.
     

    erwos

    The Hebrew Hammer
    MDS Supporter
    Mar 25, 2009
    13,866
    Rockville, MD
    Draft standards are:

    USPSA A Zone and Head box

    Start position: low ready
    1: 10yds, A zone head shot, par time 0.99s
    2: 15yds, 3 shots standing, 3 shots kneeling, par time 3.5s
    3: 25yds, 3 shots-bolt lock reload-3 shots, par time 5.0s
    4: 25yds, 6 shots, par time 3.0s

    I imagine some of this is going to be tightened up. No word on whether you can use a PCC. The reload on #3 is probably going to be the toughest one, but #4 could be rough if you don't have good recoil control.
     

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