Thanks to the EPA, Ammo prices will jump

jaybee · Oct 28, 2013

Ronald Reagan said this 49 years ago. The man had a vision.

What a guy.

Scratch · Oct 28, 2013

Reagan was a liberal.

Benanov · Oct 28, 2013

Those who ignore history are doomed to repeat it...

The US looked like that 100 years ago. We're still cleaning up the mess. The EPA might be a bit overblown, but calls to eradicate it (and OSHA) take us back a bit too far.

I want cheap lead, but I don't want to get it at the expense of someone's health. The only person I want to kill with my bullet is the threat who didn't stop otherwise.

Now FFS leave some .22LR on the shelves for me.

Lead is a pretty dense, malleable, non-radioactive, and common metal. Any others in the running to replace it? I was thinking Au, personally. (/sarcasm)

jaybee · Oct 28, 2013

Scratch said:
Reagan was a liberal.

and from california

And the only labor union president to become the President of the USA

Scratch · Oct 28, 2013

Benanov said:
The US looked like that 100 years ago. We're still cleaning up the mess. The EPA might be a bit overblown, but calls to eradicate it (and OSHA) take us back a bit too far.

You need to get with the program -- if the EPA is eliminated and laws are struck from the books then businesses worldwide that pollute will just somehow magically "do the right thing", the environment will naturally cleanse itself, and sweet sweet freedom will once again reign. Any other approach is pure totalitarianism.

TwinTurboDiesel · Oct 28, 2013

Just like to add:

(Off topic)

Thanks to the EPA our diesel equipment now has a DPF's and uses ⅓ more fuel and causes problems that are expensive fixes when it malfunctions or breaks. Also set in place a law that makes it illegal to remove said emissions controls and run without..... we have EPA and MDE come in every once in a while to test our devices. Big fines for non compliance.

Brooklyn · Oct 28, 2013

Scratch said:
I haven't seen a thought process this convoluted and self-serving since "we had to destroy the village in order to save it".

Its called systems thinking. But its OK I dont expect you to understand...

Scratch · Oct 28, 2013

Brooklyn said:
Its called systems thinking.

Sure. Underpants Gnomes collecting underpants for profit is also "systems thinking".

Perhaps you might actually show your work as to how eliminating environmental laws and regulatory enforcement of them will lead (heh) to a cleaner environment.

Brooklyn · Oct 28, 2013

Benanov said:
Those who ignore history are doomed to repeat it...

The US looked like that 100 years ago. We're still cleaning up the mess. The EPA might be a bit overblown, but calls to eradicate it (and OSHA) take us back a bit too far.

I want cheap lead, but I don't want to get it at the expense of someone's health. The only person I want to kill with my bullet is the threat who didn't stop otherwise.

Now FFS leave some .22LR on the shelves for me.

Lead is a pretty dense, malleable, non-radioactive, and common metal. Any others in the running to replace it? I was thinking Au, personally. (/sarcasm)

That's called the perfect is the enemy of the good. China is making the same Faustian bargain. Why because they have no choice -- just like we did not back then..

If the epa existed 100 years ago there would never have been an industrial age. And life expectancy would still be half what it is now. But at least there would not be any liberals -- we could not afford them...

If fact lead is a lot less toxic that you seam to think.. but no matter.... now that we can measure it at parts per billion it must be dangerous at thoss levels right?

More will die from bad solder joints causing life critical curcuit failure that air borne white lead..

But you know best.... liberals always do.

Brooklyn · Oct 28, 2013

Scratch said:
Sure. Underpants Gnomes collecting underpants for profit is also "systems thinking".

Perhaps you might actually show your work as to how eliminating environmental laws and regulatory enforcement of them will lead (heh) to a cleaner environment.

I don't want a cleaner environment. I want EPA TO DO REAL SCIENCE OR STFU..

Carbon is a pollutant. Table salt is toxic waste.

The list goes on. Want to be taken seriously do science.

The claim that there is no safe level of lead is the claim that the entire earth needs to be deleaded.

It is not my job to solve problems you invent.

First prove there is s problem
Then prove that your proposed solution is a solution.
Then prove that your solution does not cause more injury than it prevents.

Until then have a nice day.

Scratch · Oct 28, 2013

Brooklyn said:
I don't want a cleaner environment. I want EPA TO DO REAL SCIENCE OR STFU..

Carbon is a pollutant. Table salt is toxic waste.

The list goes on. Want to be taken seriously do science.

The claim that there is no safe level of lead is the claim that the entire earth needs to be deleaded.

It is not my job to solve problems you invent.

First prove there is s problem
Then prove that your proposed solution is a solution.
Then prove that your solution does not cause more injury than it prevents.

Until then have a nice day.

"Systems thinking". :lol:

Second Amendment · Oct 28, 2013

Scratch said:
^This

Take your insult and shove it. Once again, the EPA doesn't make laws; Congress does.

Secondly, move to China where no EPA-like government interference exists.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/jan/14/beijing-smog-continues-media-action

Take your epa love and YOU shove it pal. Typical, pick an extreme like communist china and argue those conditions will occur here without the epa.

Scratch · Oct 28, 2013

Second Amendment said:
Take your epa love and YOU shove it pal. Typical, pick and extreme like communist china and argue those conditions will occur here without the epa.

Your proctologist called - they couldn't find your head.

Brooklyn · Oct 28, 2013

Scratch said:
"Systems thinking".

Yup.. The claim is that the EPA is why china is like that..

We send our dirtiest industry there, since we over regulate here. Keep ignoring facts if you like. But facts are stubborn things. Far more intransigent than you. The claim is that epa hurts the environment. China is the best example...
Facts are stubborn things..

BTW Congress dies not make environmental law. It delegates reguslory power to the EPA whose buructats make ' regulations ' with the force of law..

Kind of like how the msp makes regulations in MD. But no matter we can ignore the regulations right? Right?

Scratch · Oct 28, 2013

Brooklyn said:
Yup.. The claim is that the EPA is why china is like that..

We send our dirtiest industry there, since we over regulate here. KRP ignoring facts if you like. But facts are stubborn things. Far more inyrsdigent than you. The claim is that epa hurts the environment. China is the best example...
Facts are stubborn things..

You've still not demonstrated how eliminating environmental regs and enforcement will lead to a clean environment.

The only substantive thing you've posted, in fact, is your honest statement "I don't want a cleaner environment." You could've saved the bother of the rest of it, including your non-factual attempt to link some unreferenced claim of "no safe level of lead" to anything the EPA is currently charged with enforcing.

Brooklyn · Oct 28, 2013

Scratch said:
You've still not demonstrated how eliminating environmental regs and enforcement will lead to a clean environment.

The only substantive thing you've posted, in fact, is your honest statement "I don't want a cleaner environment." You could've saved the bother of the rest of it, including your non-factual attempt to link some unreferenced claim of "no safe level of lead" to anything the EPA is currently charged with enforcing.

Do your own homework.

Lookup up the 80 / 20 rule. Look up diminishing returns.

Look up the concept of the Orwellian named ' unintended consequences'.

Or do not. Your education or lack thereof is not my job.

If you want to save the environment you had better save the economy from the EPA. Only well of counties can afford ' environmentalism ' as a state religion.

You have been warned -- the rest is up to you.

Rattlesnake46319 · Oct 28, 2013

Brooklyn said:
" the only safe level of lead is zero" -- discuss.

Then figure out why if the perfect is the enemy of the good you send jobs overseas where the 'good' becomes the 'very bad'.

facts are EPA policy increases net pollution-- by sending environmentally problematic industries to countries with no standards at all, killing jobs and increasing the use of energy in transportation..

Anyone whom cares about the global environment, and 'green house gasses' must put an end to the EPA.

Since they do not-- I conclude that their intention is other.

First off - I'm not defending the EPA at all. They tend to throw logic out the window in their pursuit of environmental worship. They'd attempt to regulate the pollutants from a forest fire if they could. In my opinion, they are the legal arm of the ELF.

Okay, maybe I'm taking it too far, but I'm pissed that I can't have a diesel in my JK thanks to those bastards.

My point is that as much as NRA-ILA would like to blame the EPA for Doe Run closing their smelter, it's not entirely true. The locals were complaining about the pollution levels long before EPA raised the standard. The smokestack that I can see from my back deck won't be torn down when they close the plant because of the amount of lead coating it.

Steel mills and refineries in Northwest Indiana upgraded their facilities in the late 70s/early 80s when the locals complained and exceeded the EPA's standards several times over. It's called being a good neighbor and it's the cost of doing business. Doe Run is choosing to not do business.

As far as "lead is a lot less toxic than you think" goes, do you go to an indoor range or reload without gloves regularly? I personally don't. But that could have something to do with my great-uncle using indoor ranges and reloading bare-handed for the better part of 20 years. Resulted in laryngeal cancer.

Benanov · Oct 28, 2013

Oddly enough, you could classify NaCl as toxic waste in the right situations. No one actually thinks NaCl is toxic waste.

But everything has an LD50 - and introducing that much salt into oh, say, a freshwater lake could turn it brackish and kill off a lot of wildlife.

You're turning samples of regulations into sound bites without context...so you're either just as bad as the liberals, or this is your application to Fox & Friends.

Second Amendment · Oct 28, 2013

All one needs to know is that the epa declared C02 a pollutant.

jaybee · Oct 28, 2013

for us old guys - interesting info to think about

According to the FDA, 13% of generic prescription drugs are made in the USA, 43% in China and 39% in India.

http://madeinusachallenge.com/2012/rite-aid-where-are-our-prescription-drugs-made/

partial list ( some of mine are on it )

http://www.dogster.com/doggie-style/want-to-know-which-drugs-are-made-in-china-check-out-this-list

:mad54:

BTW - this is just china, no india
and many medicines both human and pet come from china in bulk and are repackaged, relabeled and distributed from a US location

companies have figured out how to work with the government......
move your manufacturing facilities overseas
become a warehouse and distribution center in the US

Thanks to the EPA, Ammo prices will jump

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