Lending to family?

Hi guys,

Wasn't sure if I should put this under handguns or 2A, but since it's likely an issue because of the FSA, I chose the latter.

So, I've a brother living in tiny apartment in Columbia with his new wife of a few months. Money's tight for them at the moment, so I was thinking I could lend them one of my firearms for home defense. I'm pretty sure lending him one of my long guns shouldn't be an issue legally, but I was wondering if I'm able to lend them a handgun without him having a HQL? I remember seeing footage of Del. Smigiel grilling the MDSP on this very topic a few years back, but if memory serves, the answer wasn't very clear.

I doubt I can, but if so, I was thinking I'd buy a Hi-Point (Don't knock 'em, my first gun was one) and lend it to him for a while.

That would be considered a straw purchase.

And

If I'm not mistaken, you can't lend them a handgun wothout an hql

THier said:

That would be considered a straw purchase.

And

If I'm not mistaken, you can't lend them a handgun wothout an hql

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A straw purchase is to purchase a firearm for someone that can not legally purchase one themselves. I do not think this is the case. fwiw

My brother and I lend each other guns all the time.

Give your brother $550 in cash and send him to an IP to guy a quality used handgun.

And then get him some training.

yellowsled said:

A straw purchase is to purchase a firearm for someone that can not legally purchase one themselves. I do not think this is the case. fwiw

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^ this and also i don't think he would need a hql since he's not buying a handgun and no sale is being done

yellowsled said:

A straw purchase is to purchase a firearm for someone that can not legally purchase one themselves. I do not think this is the case. fwiw

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This.

Boy, everyone is up early this morning!

yellowsled said:

A straw purchase is to purchase a firearm for someone that can not legally purchase one themselves. I do not think this is the case. fwiw

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That is actually not correct, viz., it can be a straw purchase if you are buying a firearm for someone else, *regardless* of whether they can legally buy the firearm. Here is the statutory definition found in Md Code Public Safety 5-101(t):
(t) "Straw purchase" means a sale of a regulated firearm in which a person uses another, known as the straw purchaser, to:
(1) complete the application to purchase a regulated firearm;
(2) take initial possession of the regulated firearm; and
(3) subsequently transfer the regulated firearm to the person.

A straw purchase of a regulated firearm is prohibited by PS 5-136 which provides that "A person may not knowingly or willfully participate in a straw purchase of a regulated firearm." And PS 5-141 provides that "A dealer or other person may not be a knowing participant in a straw purchase of a regulated firearm to a minor or to a person prohibited by law from possessing a regulated firearm."

Now the penalties are different for a straw purchase, depending on whether the purchase is for a prohibited person or for a non-prohibited person. For the knowing participation in a straw sale to a prohibited person (or a minor), the penalty is 10 years in state prison (PS 5-141). For the knowing "participation" in a straw purchase (or any other sale in violation of Section 5, subtitle 1, like a sale or receipt of a handgun in violation of the HQL requirements) even for a non-prohibited person is punishable by up to 5 years in prison (PS 5-144).

BTW: A straw purchase is also a false statement on federal Form 4473 in violation of 18 U.S.C. 922(a)(6). Question 11.a. on Form 4473 asks (with bolded emphasis appearing on the form itself):
“Are you the actual transferee/buyer of the firearm(s) listed on this form? Warning: You are not the actual buyer if you are acquiring the firearm(s) on behalf of another person. If you are not the actual buyer, the dealer cannot transfer the firearm(s) to you."

See Abramski v. United States, 134 S.Ct. 2259 (2014). That applies to the sale of *any* firearm (including long guns) and includes sales for otherwise perfectly legal purchasers. (Id.). That is punishable under federal law with 10 years in prison under 18 U.S.C. 924(a)(2).

Not a good idea and especially when your brother does not possess a HQL. This is not a straw purchase; change in ownership not involved here and no intent to deceive anyone.

If anything were to happen while that firearm was not in your possession, you'd pay a heavy price in a MD court.

If your brother intends to live anywhere in the DC/Baltimore Corridor, he should get his HQL and get himself armed now. Drugs and low life are everywhere and crime is just around the corner from all of us.

Lew--Ranger63

If personal safety is the issue, would that not be more important than a stand on a political matter? If so, help your friend get set up to go through the HQL process. Then lend or gift him the money to buy a handgun. Then take him to the range and school him.

Legal issues surrounding purchase are now off the table.

MD Hunter safety course (for training exemption): $15
Fingerprint + background check: ~$60
HQL application fee: $50
New Hi-Point 9mm/45ACP from an IP here: ~$200
--------------------------------------------------------------
Total: ~$325

Lend him the money or have him save up. That's the smart way to do this.

S&W M 10-4 . No HQL needed.

HordesOfKailas said:

MD Hunter safety course (for training exemption): $15
Fingerprint + background check: ~$60
HQL application fee: $50
New Hi-Point 9mm/45ACP from an IP here: ~$200
--------------------------------------------------------------
Total: ~$325

Lend him the money or have him save up. That's the smart way to do this.

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B.A.T.f. C&R licence: $30
Polish Radom P64 Pistol - 9x18 Caliber - Semi-Auto pistol: $229.99
Shipped right to his house:$18
_________________________________________________________
Total 277.99
save $47 and do not have to go trough all the MD Bull poo

rickyp said:

B.A.T.f. C&R licence: $30
Polish Radom P64 Pistol - 9x18 Caliber - Semi-Auto pistol: $229.99
Shipped right to his house:$18

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OK, you've got me there. I was just thinking "modern" firearm with easily bought ammo. But you're absolutely right.

actually the Polish Radom P64 Pistol isn't that old, the 9x18 ammo is easy to find lot of times walmart will have it, if not it is easy to find at any web based ammo dealer.

it is in the same class as the 9x19 but not interchangeable The case is 1 mm shorter and the bullet is just a little bigger and lighter then the 9x19 round

http://www.sportsmansguide.com/product/index/sellier-amp-bellot-9x18mm-makarov-fmj-95-grain-500-rounds?a=1921311

There are many fine points to the law, but there is nothing against lending, gifting or selling an unrestricted long gun to someone you have no reason to believe is prohibited. Many of the stupid "unlawful transfer" laws are nearly unenforceable without an idiotic admission of guilt to police. Buying with intent to give it to someone else is indeed a "straw purchase", You can see dozens of these hardcore criminals around the holidays buying up tiny pink and blue 22 rifles in every gun store.

just a general rule, lending to family is rarely lending, as winning your money back on scratchers is more likely then getting the loaned goods back...

just my experience. granted i've never lended a firearm to family, but everything else... seems to never find its way home... especially money and tools. but firearms are tools so... you'd bet better off gifting them a gift card at a local gun shop and having them buy something, and you should make him get his HQL. the more people that go through the process and finally understand the ******** politicians throw at us and we oppose, we will get them to agree that it is unreasonable for this "coomon sense" anti gun BS.

.....
ooo manditory background checks for all firearm purchases, sounds like a good idea !

ooo needing a liscence to buy a handgun, sounds like that will solve the inner city violence problems!

ooo, waiting period for a handgun, good make them gang bangers wait to buy their killing machines!

ooo, limiting the magazines to 10 rounds... oo that i'll make it so only 10 people are murdered instead of 30!

ooo ooo banning scary rifles will definitely stop the next sandy hook, sounds good to me!

having to show ID to buy ammo, thats only fair right?

wow, you can buy a gun from your neighbor? how, you need a background check for that! thats too scary!

you mean there isn't a registry of all the guns, like all the cars at the DMV? thats so stupid, how will we ever find all the crazy people who go off shooting people?

a license to carry a gun? why not, that would be stupid that unverified people would just be able to carry a gun on them! how can you tell the good guns from the bad ones!?!?!?!?! everyone who isn't the police or military who carries a gun is bad!!!!

.....

the media narritive is we are cavemen who refuse to bargain. when in reality (the collective) we have bargained away almost all of our firearm rights. these are the same people that complain that... how dare someone show ID to vote! but you need an ID, a liscence, a waiting period, and a registry to buy a gun....

the more people that are aware of the ********, the more likely we will be to prevent more, and repeal the fake laws that pretend like they are doing something positive for the community, when in all reality is all they do is empower criminals and punish average joe's to the point that they just say F it, i don't want a gun. then their kids won't know what guns are or grow up around them, and they will be more susceptible to the medias brainwashing. the brainwashing says anyone with a gun is bad. when in reality most people who carry guns are good people.

Whatever you decide, if there is a slight chance he might shoot an intruder with it, you both better make damn sure everything is as legal as legal can be.

You would've been fine if you just lent him the gun and didn't post about it on the Internet.