Go Back   Maryland Shooters > Gun Rights and Legislation > Maryland 2A Issues
Don't Have An Account? Register Here

Join MD Shooters

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old April 10th, 2012, 04:25 PM #61
StantonCree's Avatar
StantonCree StantonCree is offline
Watch your beer
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 16,272
StantonCree StantonCree is offline
Watch your beer
StantonCree's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 16,272
Quote:
Originally Posted by knownalien View Post
well, if you could show that most suspects only intend to run away from the cops and don't want to harm the cops, can I conclude that cops should lose the guns and/or batons? Do cops need to carry guns if they are only doing traffic stops? How far do we want to carry this "just comply" logic?
officerdown.com , you tell me???

oh by the way my district alone has killed 4 this year after being shot at. So considering my chances of getting into an encounter where a weapon is necessary are 3000x times more likely than that of the average citizen then you tell me??

I really think your missing the point im dropping here. I'm not saying just comply. I'm advising you to THINK before you make any action . There is a reason Pride is one of the 7 deadly sins.
__________________
one shot of whiskey for myself and one for my new friend
StantonCree is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 10th, 2012, 04:28 PM #62
esqappellate's Avatar
esqappellate esqappellate is offline
President, MSI
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 6,367
esqappellate esqappellate is offline
President, MSI
esqappellate's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 6,367
Quote:
Originally Posted by mpdc4511 View Post
No unarmed robberies please fight back while yelling or run like hell. The chances of death in an unarmed robbery are significantly less but i do agree three kids with boots can inflict a lot of damage.

Trust me in D.C. your not going to get locked up for defending yourself within reason. If someone comes up with a feather and says im the tickle monster prepare to be tickeled and you whip out an AK well come on thats not really defending yourself. Most of you have common sense and I trust you will make the right decision for the situation.
I know the law on this pretty well (it is what I do for a living). Putting aside the feather scenario, I also know that the unarmed combat training that takes over in a situation when faced with superior numbers against you can be quite "definitive." A "lot of damage" can mean that the "kid" goes to the hospital or the morgue. Still not in the lockup? Sure, I may win eventually in front of a jury. Maybe, maybe not.
__________________
This may sound like legal advice, but it isn't. Don't rely on it. Hire your own counsel.
esqappellate is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 10th, 2012, 04:29 PM #63
knownalien's Avatar
knownalien knownalien is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Glen Burnie, MD.
Posts: 1,596
knownalien knownalien is offline
Senior Member
knownalien's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Glen Burnie, MD.
Posts: 1,596
I think the way it would work out by itself, the only choice IS to comply. Otherwise you are shooting at someone running away from you. I don't think we always know who is going to rob us. It just happens. I PERSONALLY would comply (even if I am CCW), but not in a home setting. The reason for that is that it would be a live home invasion and if they know someone is at home and still decide to invade, then that it a deathwish. If they think no one is home but someone is, well, then we have a Darwin Award winner possibly.
knownalien is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 10th, 2012, 04:35 PM #64
WeaponsCollector's Avatar
WeaponsCollector WeaponsCollector is offline
EXTREME GUN OWNER
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Southern MD
Posts: 11,050
Images: 47
WeaponsCollector WeaponsCollector is offline
EXTREME GUN OWNER
WeaponsCollector's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Southern MD
Posts: 11,050
Images: 47
The way I see it, if someone is attacking you, you must assume that they intend to harm you or even kill you regardless if they only want your money. Like if someone invades your home, you have every right to blow them away because your home is your castle and you must assume whoever just broke in didn't do it just to say hello. But every situation is different and you almost need to know by instinct how to react in any given situation. First time I got attacked/carjacked back in high school I complied with my crackhead attackers, after all I knew one of them from school and he seemed like a nice guy, but his "friends" certainly were not and I ended up getting carjacked, kidnapped, threatened(they said they had a gun but I never saw one), beaten, drugged, then dropped off in the middle of the ghetto.
They could have killed me easily and there would have been nothing I could have done about it(5 against 1).
Luckily thanks to an alert officer I got my car back a few days later and a couple hundred miles away full of clothes and trash. The second time I did not comply and ended up backing over both carjackers/attackers while they were beating up my friend. If I had complied with my attackers the second time who knows what would have happened, but I was not going to find out! Never again!
__________________
...the doctrine of non-resistance against arbitrary power and oppression is absurd, slavish and destructive of the good and happiness of mankind.
- MARYLAND CONSTITUTION - DECLARATION OF RIGHTS Art. 6

The Chicago police department said the best way to defend yourself from a violent attacker is to vomit on yourself. I think flinging poo could work a little better. But NOTHING beats flinging LEAD!
WeaponsCollector is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 10th, 2012, 04:40 PM #65
esqappellate's Avatar
esqappellate esqappellate is offline
President, MSI
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 6,367
esqappellate esqappellate is offline
President, MSI
esqappellate's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 6,367
Quote:
Originally Posted by WeaponsCollector View Post
The way I see it, if someone is attacking you in any way, you must assume that they intend to harm you or even kill you regardless if they only want your money. Like if someone invades your home, you have every right to blow them away because your home is your castle and you must assume whoever just broke in didn't do it just to say hello. But every situation is different and you almost need to know by instinct how to react in any given situation.
Instinct, IMHO, won't do. Training, preparation and practice of scenarios is the only answer. The NRA PPITH, and PPOTH, are essential first steps for that training. You fight how you train and if you don't train, you fight poorly.
__________________
This may sound like legal advice, but it isn't. Don't rely on it. Hire your own counsel.
esqappellate is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 10th, 2012, 04:51 PM #66
StantonCree's Avatar
StantonCree StantonCree is offline
Watch your beer
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 16,272
StantonCree StantonCree is offline
Watch your beer
StantonCree's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 16,272
Quote:
Originally Posted by esqappellate View Post
I know the law on this pretty well (it is what I do for a living). Putting aside the feather scenario, I also know that the unarmed combat training that takes over in a situation when faced with superior numbers against you can be quite "definitive." A "lot of damage" can mean that the "kid" goes to the hospital or the morgue. Still not in the lockup? Sure, I may win eventually in front of a jury. Maybe, maybe not.
Who knows maybe you'll be the next zimmerman

But seriously the answer to the force question and how much to use is, "what is reasonably necessary" The public is held to the same standards as the police in this one. A good friend of mine was being jumped in college by 8 guys outside of a bar. He removed his "work knife" and 30 stitches later (for one of his attackers) it was deemed self defense.

If you hit a guy while he is attempting to rob you and he just so happens to fall and hit his head on a curb chances are your not going to be charged with that because the amount of force you used was reasonable to repel an attack.

The real necessity in any force used is not the actual forced used but the actions after. Did you notify police, EMS (if needed), and were you yelling for help.

The biggest part is articulation to police. It doesn't look good if after an incident you express your happiness that your right hook killed that thug.
__________________
one shot of whiskey for myself and one for my new friend
StantonCree is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 10th, 2012, 04:59 PM #67
WeaponsCollector's Avatar
WeaponsCollector WeaponsCollector is offline
EXTREME GUN OWNER
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Southern MD
Posts: 11,050
Images: 47
WeaponsCollector WeaponsCollector is offline
EXTREME GUN OWNER
WeaponsCollector's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Southern MD
Posts: 11,050
Images: 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by esqappellate View Post
Instinct, IMHO, won't do. Training, preparation and practice of scenarios is the only answer. The NRA PPITH, and PPOTH, are essential first steps for that training. You fight how you train and if you don't train, you fight poorly.
Unfortunately I can't fight(bad back) and have to rely on tools and instincts for self defense.
WeaponsCollector is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 10th, 2012, 05:09 PM #68
J-Dog's Avatar
J-Dog J-Dog is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 1,465
J-Dog J-Dog is offline
Senior Member
J-Dog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 1,465
I think that I would comply if my assailant had me dead to rights. But I also like to think that I would defend myself or escape if given the chance to do so.

I can't trust anyone with the gumption to rob me to just take my stuff and run. That's putting a lot more faith in them than I care to. There's a chance that they would just take what they want and run, but there's also the chance that it could turn out like the Hi Fi Robbery of 1974.

Fair warning, it's not a pleasant read.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hi-Fi_murders
J-Dog is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 10th, 2012, 05:10 PM #69
esqappellate's Avatar
esqappellate esqappellate is offline
President, MSI
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 6,367
esqappellate esqappellate is offline
President, MSI
esqappellate's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 6,367
Quote:
Originally Posted by WeaponsCollector View Post
Unfortunately I can't fight(bad back) and have to rely on tools and instincts for self defense.
You can still take these courses with a bad back, as long as you can stand, walk, kneel and shoot. Highly recommended.
__________________
This may sound like legal advice, but it isn't. Don't rely on it. Hire your own counsel.
esqappellate is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 10th, 2012, 05:13 PM #70
X-Factor's Avatar
X-Factor X-Factor is offline
I don't say please
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Calvert County
Posts: 5,170
X-Factor X-Factor is offline
I don't say please
X-Factor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Calvert County
Posts: 5,170
I'm sorry (no I'm not), but it's MY stuff. It's not yours and I'm not giving it to you willingly. Period.
__________________
Own yourself. Understand the Non-Aggression Principle. Be Free.
X-Factor is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

  Home Page > Forum List > Gun Rights and Legislation > Maryland 2A Issues


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 05:28 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
2018, Congregate Media, LP Privacy Policy Terms of Service