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Old April 10th, 2012, 04:10 PM #51
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Originally Posted by mpdc4511 View Post
If i could answer that question id be a billionaire. I wish i could provide you all that answer of when to know u were going to be harmed. Theres always going to be the outliers where citizens get killed, and I pray its none of u. Just speaking from experience most only want ur stuff.
I accept that as most certainly true. You can understand, however, that I just may not want to trust my life and limb to the odds that he isn't one of the sickos who also enjoys doing harm. As the vice mayor suggested the other day, I may heal and it is only money. Or I also may be dead.
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Old April 10th, 2012, 04:17 PM #52
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I accept that as most certainly true. You can understand, however, that I just may not want to trust my life and limb to the odds that he isn't one of the sickos who also enjoys doing harm. As the vice mayor suggested the other day, I may heal and it is only money. Or I also may be dead.
Yes sir and i completly understand the sentiment in this thread. I just dont think most people here understand the complexity of the situation as it unfolds. Again I agree an armed society would be a deterrent. Ill also say that id never advise anyone not to do what they deemed necessary to make it home to their family.

Its a tough situation with a judgement call only the victim can make. The only thing im really advocating is thinking before acting on bravado can save ur life
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Old April 10th, 2012, 04:32 PM #53
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Gentlemen while I agree the defeatist attitude given off by the police here isn't one your willing to accept but I think your missing the point.

So I just reached into my wallet and I have 39 bucks (I never carry cash either). Is your life worth your 39 bucks, a pizza, and some delivery money that isn't even yours?

I know it's fun to play make believe, "oh I'd get the drop on that thug and kill him dead before he knew what hit him" but, and hate to be the bad news giver, chances are you wouldn't. In 99% of robberies the victim is unharmed (wanna know how I know? Ohhhhh maybe a year on a robbery suppression team). The criminals don't want to hurt you they want your stuff but if you spook a guy with a gun generally bad things happen........ask me how I know?

I will concede that if more people were armed maybe they would think twice before robbing someone but to tough talk and chest puff chances are your going to lose. It may be a hi-point filled with blazer but I for sure don't want to be on the working end.

Just asking you to think before acting.
this logic can be used for many different crimes. how about rape? "Hey, the guy just wants to bang and not kill you." Or, "hey, he just wants to break into your house and steal your dog and Tv. Is your life worth the family dog and TV?"

I don't want to play these games. I don't want to have to guess if this criminal is having a really bad day or holding a gun with no bullets. There are PLENTY of assualts that prove enough to me that people physically hurt others.

JUST COMPLY APPLIES TO NEARLY EVERY CRIME EXCEPT MAYBE ATTEMPTED MURDER AND EVEN THEN IT MAY APPLY.

Not in the society I want to live in.
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Old April 10th, 2012, 04:39 PM #54
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this logic can be used for many different crimes. how about rape? "Hey, the guy just wants to bang and not kill you." Or, "hey, he just wants to break into your house and steal your dog and Tv. Is your life worth the family dog and TV?"

I don't want to play these games. I don't want to have to guess if this criminal is having a really bad day or holding a gun with no bullets. There are PLENTY of assualts that prove enough to me that people physically hurt others.

JUST COMPLY APPLIES TO NEARLY EVERY CRIME EXCEPT MAYBE ATTEMPTED MURDER AND EVEN THEN IT MAY APPLY.

Not in the society I want to live in.
Leos are open to public suggestions on how to solve the problem.

BTW considering the current gun climate in md the whining constant bitch of cc isn't going to cut it at the current moment. I say that cuz id LOVE to be able to advise my citizens of good working ideas. Obviously cc isn't and option for most at this current time so shoot me some ideas. Im a roast baste me.
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Old April 10th, 2012, 04:39 PM #55
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Yes sir and i completly understand the sentiment in this thread. I just dont think most people here understand the complexity of the situation as it unfolds. Again I agree an armed society would be a deterrent. Ill also say that id never advise anyone not to do what they deemed necessary to make it home to their family.

Its a tough situation with a judgement call only the victim can make. The only thing im really advocating is thinking before acting on bravado can save ur life
On that, we are entirely in agreement! Bravado is damn dumb. Run (to safety) if you can. But you can't out run a round and most of these perps are a lot younger than moi so they can probably out run me, even with a knife, as my poor colleague found out to his near demise in upper NW DC. Best advice is situational awareness and stay the hell out of places and circumstances that may pose the risk. But that won't necessarily save you either. I have been threatened and assaulted at night by 3 guys just outside the FBI building walking to the metro -- I didn't get hurt but only because I was able to run a short distance back to DOJ whose entrances are well guarded with armed might. A DOJ employee was knifed a few years during a robbery at the Archives station. And those Starbucks employees, IIRC, were in Georgetown (which isn't soo safe anymore). The only other alternative to hundle in fear in your home (a crappy way to live), but are not home invasions in DC also on the rise along with other robberies? And what is the incidence of bodily harm associated with home invasions of an occupied residence? Until Heller, you couldn't even arm yourself in your home and DC still makes that very difficult.
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Old April 10th, 2012, 04:45 PM #56
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Leos are open to public suggestions on how to solve the problem.
there ever has been, is, and ever will be crime. Nothing will get rid of it. The most you can do is give those that would be victims the ability to help themselves. There is no "equal footing" in your scenario. I think one can conclude that there is MORE than one reason why armed criminals don't always shoot their victim and compassion ain't exactly at the upper echelon of reasons.
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Old April 10th, 2012, 04:53 PM #57
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On that, we are entirely in agreement! Bravado is damn dumb. Run (to safety) if you can. But you can't out run a round and most of these perps are a lot younger than moi so they can probably out run me, even with a knife, as my poor colleague found out to his near demise in upper NW DC. Best advice is situational awareness and stay the hell out of places and circumstances that may pose the risk. But that won't necessarily save you either. I have been threatened and assaulted at night by 3 guys just outside the FBI building walking to the metro -- I didn't get hurt but only because I was able to run a short distance back to DOJ whose entrances are well guarded with armed might. A DOJ employee was knifed a few years during a robbery at the Archives station. And those Starbucks employees, IIRC, were in Georgetown (which isn't soo safe anymore). The only other alternative to hundle in fear in your home (a crappy way to live), but are not home invasions in DC also on the rise along with other robberies? And what is the incidence of bodily harm associated with home invasions of an occupied residence? Until Heller, you couldn't even arm yourself in your home and DC still makes that very difficult.
Armed home invastions are not on the rise here. They are actualy quite infrequent in this area or D.C. in general. Our robberies are on the rise for sure but most robberies in the area are actually unarmed. It's 3-4 kids who assault 1-2 victims and take stuff rom their pockets. Generally its juveniles and 18 yr olds and they are completly unarmed. In D.C. it's called robbery force and violence and thats whats really on the rise in D.C. robbery wise.
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Old April 10th, 2012, 05:05 PM #58
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Armed home invastions are not on the rise here. They are actualy quite infrequent in this area or D.C. in general. Our robberies are on the rise for sure but most robberies in the area are actually unarmed. It's 3-4 kids who assault 1-2 victims and take stuff rom their pockets. Generally its juveniles and 18 yr olds and they are completly unarmed. In D.C. it's called robbery force and violence and thats whats really on the rise in D.C. robbery wise.
I am delighted that home invasions are infrequent. It is not my understanding that they are actually rare. But accepting that, how many of the unarmed robberies result in harm to the victim? 3-4 kids can inflict a tremendous amount of harm with just fists and boots. Is your advice not to resist even the unarmed kids because the odds are that they just want your property? I am trained in unarmed hand to hand combat. If I used those skills on unarmed "kids," I could do a lot of damage, but alas, the law is such that I could be arrested if I did. That's assuming that one of them doesn't also have a knife -- if they do, I would most certainly get cut and you just don't know. So, should a victim just give in and trust to God? What is your advice? I work in DC so your professional opinion would be most valuable to me.
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Old April 10th, 2012, 05:11 PM #59
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well, if you could show that most suspects only intend to run away from the cops and don't want to harm the cops, can I conclude that cops should lose the guns and/or batons? Do cops need to carry guns if they are only doing traffic stops? How far do we want to carry this "just comply" logic?
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Old April 10th, 2012, 05:19 PM #60
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I am delighted that home invasions are infrequent. It is not my understanding that they are actually rare. But accepting that, how many of the unarmed robberies result in harm to the victim? 3-4 kids can inflict a tremendous amount of harm with just fists and boots. Is your advice not to resist even the unarmed kids because the odds are that they just want your property? I am trained in unarmed hand to hand combat. If I used those skills on unarmed "kids," I could do a lot of damage, but alas, the law is such that I could be arrested if I did. That's assuming that one of them doesn't also have a knife -- if they do, I would most certainly get cut and you just don't know. So, should a victim just give in and trust to God? What is your advice? I work in DC so your professional opinion would be most valuable to me.
No unarmed robberies please fight back while yelling or run like hell. The chances of death in an unarmed robbery are significantly less but i do agree three kids with boots can inflict a lot of damage.

Trust me in D.C. your not going to get locked up for defending yourself within reason. If someone comes up with a feather and says im the tickle monster prepare to be tickeled and you whip out an AK well come on thats not really defending yourself. Most of you have common sense and I trust you will make the right decision for the situation.
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