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Old November 15th, 2017, 09:11 AM #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BradMacc82 View Post

So while you may be seeing swings in COL when measuring from base to tip, if you were using a comparator (which measures at the ogive), you'd be seeing little to no variation in COL.
Agree with this....get a comparator and that will help a lot. Although, using "good bullets" helps, I've noticed that Bergers varied ogive box to box more than Sierras...only my experience, Ill stick with Sierras.
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Old November 15th, 2017, 09:22 AM #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sticky View Post
^^^ This... and depending on what projectiles you are loading, there can be a lot of variation when you measure tip to base on a loaded cartridge.

Measure a handful of bullets from the box and see if you see some variations in bullet oal, then invest in a comparator to assist with accurate measurements..
Wouldn't matter if the box contained bullets that were one inch long and two inches long.

They're being pushed on at one end. And that end would stop in the same location each time the ram is moved into place.

The only difference in the cartridges is some of the bullets would be sticking farther into the case. But the COAL would remain the same.
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Old November 15th, 2017, 09:38 AM #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iH8DemLibz View Post
Wouldn't matter if the box contained bullets that were one inch long and two inches long.

They're being pushed on at one end. And that end would stop in the same location each time the ram is moved into place.

The only difference in the cartridges is some of the bullets would be sticking farther into the case. But the COAL would remain the same.
Let's face it, the reloading industry has made lots of money selling tools to reloaders that never seem to get it exactly right and then they come out with a new tool.

OP, in a nutshell, here is the issue. Unless you have lots of time to spend measuring each bullet and keeping them in segregated lots, you are always going to have some variation.

30 years ago or so, used to shoot with an Air Force doctor who never loaded at home and never used a scale. He loaded his rifle rounds by volume (using manual references), and adjusted his bullet to land distance using a bullet in a case with slits in the neck. He did this whenever he bought a new lot of bullets (5000 round cases) and stopped when he got the best group. He always scored in the top ranks.

Shoot the gun and let it tell you what it likes.
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Old November 15th, 2017, 10:03 AM #14
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OP, with the idea that a picture is worth 1000 words.

Note the ogive that the guys here are mentioning. Note also the bullet point.

You'll see that your bullet point is touching absolutely nothing within that rifle bore. The first point of contact that your bullet will have with the lands of your rifle bore will take place where bullet bearing surface begins to appear at the ogive. It's the ogive that your seating plug inside your seating die is contacting as well, and where that ogive begins is the source of your variation.

As you progress, you'll perhaps want to measure the distance between that bullet ogive and the lands in your rifle, as doing so and experimenting with that relationship can help with squeezing optimal levels of accuracy out of your handloads.

None of which means that your current loads with the length variations you mentioned are now no good. But when you reach a point where you want to tweak loads with "nth degree" optimal accuracy in mind, you'll want to concentrate on the relationship between the ogive on your bullet and the lands of your rifle.

The link below is but one example of one tool that can help you with this.



https://www.hornady.com/reloading/pr...let-comparator
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Old November 15th, 2017, 11:03 AM #15
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Nice pic Uncle Duke. Sometimes I wish I was computer literate. Not often mind you but sometimes it would help.
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Old November 15th, 2017, 11:07 AM #16
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Quote:
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Nice pic Uncle Duke. Sometimes I wish I was computer literate. Not often mind you but sometimes it would help.
Not really my thing either sir, I can assure you!

I try to get much past this, and I usually need to recruit a teenager!

Thanks
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Old November 15th, 2017, 02:45 PM #17
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OP, you've stumbled onto one of the joys and frustrations of reloading! The ability to endlessly fiddle with and customize the round to YOUR barrel.

Here's the rub, some bullets like a bit of jump to the lands, some like to be just a hair's length away from the lands. It takes some experimentation. But the first step is to accurately measure the length of your chamber and find out where the lands and grooves of your barrel are.

Here's a link to an inexpensive way to do that: http://www.wideopenspaces.com/reload...ng-lands-pics/

Or you can buy tools (called a headspace gauge) that measure the same thing, but honestly this method works just as well. Probably the best way is to combine the method in the link with a bullet comparator so that you have the measurement to the ogive as others have said, but if you don't plan on swapping out bullet types it can work to just measure the OAL to the tip too.

You'll need to experiment. Generally you don't do this with gas operated semi's, as close tolerances within gas guns can lead to failures to feed. Having said that...knowing how much jump (distance between the ogive on the bullet and the lands/grooves of the barrel) you have in your loads I've found to be helpful even with gas guns.

Bottom line though...just as others have stated you don't have any issues with your seating die. It's inconsistencies in your bullets and they won't effect the accuracy of those reloads enough to worry about IMHO. One can go crazy obsessing over making the perfect reload.

Opinions vary, but for what it's worth here's how I'd rate things that impact the accuracy of your reloads in order:

- Bullet weight / design that works for your barrel's twist rate and what your shooting goals and budget are
- Powder charge that finds a "node" in your barrel's harmonics for that bullet / case / primer / powder combo
- bullet jump
- concentricity
- consistent neck tension
- anally obsessing about powder throw / trickling up to charge
- deburred flash hole
- Sorting components by weight (bullets) or volume (cases)
- uniforming primer pockets

There are other tweeks too...like uniforming the meplats of the bullets...but to be honest I don't spend a lot of time doing things like that or really most of the list above unless I'm making match loads. One could spend a lot of time chasing accuracy through tinkering loads that would be better spent shooting.


   
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