So what if Hogan wins a Second term?

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  • East2West

    Banned
    BANNED!!!
    Jul 20, 2013
    902
    Nomalley, Nobama
    There is something called the long game. Sometimes you have to give in on a battle to win the war.

    I stand by what I have said. You either understand that their is a fight going on, or you sit on the sidelines and bitch and moan about how morally superior you are for letting the 2A die. This fight has taken decades to get here. There are only 2 sides. If you want to sit on the sidelines, or have always sat on the sidelines, you are the exact reason why Hogan had to sign the bills. That is a basic analysis of how much he will gain or lose by signing or not signing the bill. Elections have consequences, and this election has major consequences for anyone who cares about 2A if Hogan loses. If he loses, the 2A is toast. It will die a much faster rate than ever in our history.



    Exactly. There is a long game, and being a Republican and Anti-2a at the same time cannot be a part of that. People need to not stand on the sidelines, they need to get out and vote. Use your vote to send the message that being anti-gun is a poison pill even for a wildly popular Republican Governor. Show the MDGOP you will send them home regardless of how popular they think they are.
     

    East2West

    Banned
    BANNED!!!
    Jul 20, 2013
    902
    Nomalley, Nobama
    Nope. Hogan proposes a map. The dems pass a map and Hogan vetoes it. With either 5 senators or 7 house members, the dems cant override the veto. They go back again. At some point it goes to the courts and the courts have historically accepted the maps put forth by the electoral commission, sometimes with minor tweaks. With the new make up of the commission with Hogan as governor and the seat pickups, he controls the commission and they put out a map of single member districts. Any map of single member districts picks up as many as 20 house seats, and potentially a few senators. In addition changes the congressional maps to small and compact maps, the R's pick up 2 to 3 congressman. This is what the dems fear the most and why they want to have you all stay home or vote for someone other than Hogan.

    The dems win because they compact R's into districts and spread out their voters. They strategically use single member districts to their advantage, where it shouldnt be used. But if you change all to single member districts, the voter maps show huge changes. You dont think the congressional maps are squiggly lines for your benefit? But you all choose to stay home and throw everything in the trash and there probably wont be another chance like this in our lifetimes. So you go ahead and vote for anyone but Hogan and let the dems win and trash the 2A and further render your votes even more worthless.


    I'm pretty sure the Governor cannot veto the GA's map.
     

    44man

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Feb 19, 2013
    10,129
    southern md
    Nope. Hogan proposes a map. The dems pass a map and Hogan vetoes it. With either 5 senators or 7 house members, the dems cant override the veto. They go back again. At some point it goes to the courts and the courts have historically accepted the maps put forth by the electoral commission, sometimes with minor tweaks. With the new make up of the commission with Hogan as governor and the seat pickups, he controls the commission and they put out a map of single member districts. Any map of single member districts picks up as many as 20 house seats, and potentially a few senators. In addition changes the congressional maps to small and compact maps, the R's pick up 2 to 3 congressman. This is what the dems fear the most and why they want to have you all stay home or vote for someone other than Hogan.

    The dems win because they compact R's into districts and spread out their voters. They strategically use single member districts to their advantage, where it shouldnt be used. But if you change all to single member districts, the voter maps show huge changes. You dont think the congressional maps are squiggly lines for your benefit? But you all choose to stay home and throw everything in the trash and there probably wont be another chance like this in our lifetimes. So you go ahead and vote for anyone but Hogan and let the dems win and trash the 2A and further render your votes even more worthless.

    Or far more likely several traitors calling themselves republicans get voted out this election

    Or more likely the numbers don’t change enough and mike and mike take Hogan’s map, if re-elected, and wipe their asses with it and install their own map
     

    Matlack

    Scribe
    Dec 15, 2008
    8,555
    You keep giving in and let us know when you've won the war. :lol2:

    Also, despite your violation of forum rules (not to mention basic civility) by personally insulting me among others here tonight, I'm glad that there's no room now to call you a coward for refusing to stand behind your words.

    You keep sitting home and let me know when you have had our rights restored. In the mean time I will go out and try to get multiple people elected who will fight for legislation to undo what the dems have done and try to restore our rights.
     

    ohen cepel

    Ultimate Member
    Feb 2, 2011
    4,509
    Where they send me.
    Sadly, I think if he wins it will be more of the same and not good for us.

    That said, the alternative will be worse. Yes, sad situation but it is what it is.

    I will likely vote for a dem for the first time in my life as I want Kittleman's political career to end ASAP before he succeeds in paving all of HoCo while shafting the current residents. Hell, may vote for Chelsea Manning if she was running against him this year.
     

    Mr H

    Banana'd
    And how is Hogan going to get 5 senators and 7 House members? Is he going to wave a magic wand and get The Mikes to accept his map? You really think the Maryland Democrat Party is going to let a Republican single handedly redraw the districts???

    Are ANY OF you involved in a Republican campaign, talking with the candidates about what is going on behind the scenes?

    If you are, great... but it doesn't sound like it.

    If you were, you would know that increased money and support are--for the first time in a long time--coming from the state party to the local races. Hogan is making the push in districts where the Ds are vulnerable... but it will be pissing up a rope unless folks get involved.

    This is not something to be laid out on the 5:00 news... but then, I suppose it never happened, right?
     
    Last edited:

    Matlack

    Scribe
    Dec 15, 2008
    8,555
    I'm pretty sure the Governor cannot veto the GA's map.

    He can veto any legislation passed, to include a legislative map. There just hasn't been an opportunity to do it in over 60 years. The legal eagles in the Hogan administration have gone over this and is why they want the 5 senators or 7 house seats.
     

    BradMacc82

    Ultimate Member
    Industry Partner
    Aug 17, 2011
    26,177
    Might want to make sure the hopefuls actually know to read the damn bills before they vote on them.
     

    Boondock Saint

    Ultimate Member
    Dec 11, 2008
    24,366
    White Marsh
    You keep sitting home and let me know when you have had our rights restored. In the mean time I will go out and try to get multiple people elected who will fight for legislation to undo what the dems have done and try to restore our rights.

    Good luck with that. If these candidates for savior of the 2A are anything like Hogan, I hope you/they fail in miserable and hysterical fashion. I would feast on the schadenfreude.
     

    Matlack

    Scribe
    Dec 15, 2008
    8,555
    Are you involved in a Republican campaign, talking with the candidates about what is going on behind the scenes?

    If you are, great... but it doesn't sound like it.

    If you were, you would know that increased money and support are--for the first time in a long time--coming from the state party to the local races. Hogan is making the push in districts where the Ds are vulnerable... but it will be pissing up a rope unless folks get involved.

    This is not something to be laid out on the 5:00 news... but then, I suppose it never happened, right?

    Not just vulnerable, seats that dems are retiring from because they know they wont or cant win. Even Mike & Mike have publicly stated that they will lose at least 3 senate seats. 2 on the eastern shore and one in the county because O'Malley got into a tiff with one of the senators from his own party and wanted to see him lose, so he gerrymandered the seat to republicans to boot him out.
     

    East2West

    Banned
    BANNED!!!
    Jul 20, 2013
    902
    Nomalley, Nobama
    He can veto any legislation passed, to include a legislative map. There just hasn't been an opportunity to do it in over 60 years. The legal eagles in the Hogan administration have gone over this and is why they want the 5 senators or 7 house seats.


    Can you show me where that's laid out in the State Constitution?

    Or somewhere else that says he can veto it? I've been researching this point for a bit once it looked like Hogan was going to stab us in the back. It's the main point I hear from the apologists about why we need him reelected. But so far what I've found says the GA can just rewrite the map and ignore his map.


    References so far.

    http://redistricting.lls.edu/states-MD.php


    https://ballotpedia.org/Redistricting_in_Maryland
     

    Mr H

    Banana'd
    Not just vulnerable, seats that dems are retiring from because they know they wont or cant win. Even Mike & Mike have publicly stated that they will lose at least 3 senate seats. 2 on the eastern shore and one in the county because O'Malley got into a tiff with one of the senators from his own party and wanted to see him lose, so he gerrymandered the seat to republicans to boot him out.

    I was rolling those seats into my thinking... but you're right.

    Then, there are folks like Sophocleus in D32, who is probably too banged up to serve a full term. My gut feeling is that he is assuming a win on his incumbency, then will immediately retire so the party can nominate another wiener. Defeating him (and the others) is very important.

    Bottom line, though, is that there are strategies in play. People can either get behind them and make an effort, or whine at home--before AND after the election.
     

    East2West

    Banned
    BANNED!!!
    Jul 20, 2013
    902
    Nomalley, Nobama
    I was rolling those seats into my thinking... but you're right.

    Then, there are folks like Sophocleus in D32, who is probably too banged up to serve a full term. My gut feeling is that he is assuming a win on his incumbency, then will immediately retire so the party can nominate another wiener. Defeating him (and the others) is very important.

    Bottom line, though, is that there are strategies in play. People can either get behind them and make an effort, or whine at home--before AND after the election.


    It's 100% possible to go out and vote for a R in a D district... and still maintain some principles and not vote for gun grabbers like Hogan... 100% possible, you press different buttons for each candidate.
     

    Boondock Saint

    Ultimate Member
    Dec 11, 2008
    24,366
    White Marsh
    2A being the foundation of that which is liberty, one either believes in it, or they don't. If this most basic and simplistic of boxes cannot be checked by a candidate, the rest is irrelevant; they don't trust us with whatever part of the 2A that offends them, up to and including private firearm ownership. The rest is noise.

    We can Buckley ourselves to servitude as quickly or as slowly as we like, or we can stop voting for the lesser of two evils because we're terrified of the donkey in a blue tie. Instead, we get Democrat Lite (or in this state, Communist Lite) if we're lucky. Conservatism/liberty wins on its own, but the Stupid Party refuses to actually run on those principles. Not surprisingly, we get boned either way.

    For those who understand, no explanation is needed. For those who don't, no explanation is possible.
     

    ToolAA

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Jun 17, 2016
    10,499
    God's Country
    2A being the foundation of that which is liberty, one either believes in it, or they don't. If this most basic and simplistic of boxes cannot be checked by a candidate, the rest is irrelevant; they don't trust us with whatever part of the 2A that offends them, up to and including private firearm ownership. The rest is noise.


    The problem is not simply the Governor’s beliefs, the sad fact is that in this state a majority of the population, even many republicans don’t believe either. No candidate can single handedly change the opinion of the electorate in one or two terms, but a subtle shift in political direction can pave the way for future candidates to move the pendulum in the pro 2A direction.

    I think the right thing to do is to send a letter to the governor that you DO NOT support his actions this last session, tell him you are pissed and that you expect that he work to undo the damage done to our 2A rights in this state. What other logical choice do we have in this state.




    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
     

    Matlack

    Scribe
    Dec 15, 2008
    8,555
    Dug a little more, the redistricting is a Joint Resolution passed by the General Assembly, and the Governor cannot veto a Joint Resolution.


    https://msa.maryland.gov/msa/mdmanual/07leg/html/proc.html

    Then I misunderstood and it is to filibuster the JR, or they need 29 votes to pass it. Either way, Hogan appoints most of the commission, puts out the maps, the R's prevent the D's map, and it gets pushed to the courts, and the courts historically take the commissions map. This history has to do with county redistricting maps, not state maps.

    Is there a guarantee that any of this happens? No. But its an opportunity that we have not had previously. You have the potential for the numbers in both houses to block the dems and control the governorship during redistricting. The alternative is the dems regain full control, modify the maps to reduce the number of R's in both chambers. Wipe out all opposition and then enact whatever bills they want again. I will go with the chance at stopping the progressive liberal dems that have taken over their party and try to re-enact our rights with new members in both houses and a lame duck governor. Hopefully giving the chance to change peoples minds in the future and electing a governor who will fight for us rather than against us.
     

    Boondock Saint

    Ultimate Member
    Dec 11, 2008
    24,366
    White Marsh
    The problem is not simply the Governor’s beliefs, the sad fact is that in this state a majority of the population, even many republicans don’t believe either. No candidate can single handedly change the opinion of the electorate in one or two terms, but a subtle shift in political direction can pave the way for future candidates to move the pendulum in the pro 2A direction.

    I think the right thing to do is to send a letter to the governor that you DO NOT support his actions this last session, tell him you are pissed and that you expect that he work to undo the damage done to our 2A rights in this state. What other logical choice do we have in this state.

    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

    The letter that comes after the candidate's name is irrelevant if they don't believe in 2A. That's a hard pill for some to swallow, but it's the truth.

    I wrote letters. I made phone calls. I educated my critters. I laid out facts and rational arguments. So many of us did. Yet, here we are.

    Fool me once. Or, "(a) Prince whose character is thus marked by every act which may define a Tyrant, is unfit to be the ruler of a free people," if you prefer.
     

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