Opinions on whether the barrel below complies with "heavy barrel"? SPR-like profile

MG-70 · Aug 11, 2016

94hokie said:
I may be reading your post wrong, but if your lowers are all pre-2013 then you don't have to worry about barrel profile

I don't want to use more than one upper on a kosher lower, so I am buying one or more newly-made lowers.

Thanks

trickg · Aug 11, 2016

BigToe said:
I had a conversation with the owner of my local firearm dealer....he said that he attended an FFL meeting with the Sheriff dept. for clarification of the HBAR rule. He was told that the only requisite for an AR-15 being legal in MD is that the manufacturer calls it an HBAR. He said it doesn't need to be stamped HBAR, and it doesn't have to meet a certain dimension or weight. He said as long as the manufacture documents it as an HBAR, he can sell it.

Can anyone else confirm this? Have any FFL dealers received more detailed information or clarification?

I was just thinking about this when I was skimming through this thread. This is yet another one of those feel-good laws where Maryland wants to advertise that they are making the state safer by enacting "common sense" gun laws and "banning" the AR-15.

I think more ARs have been bought and sold in this state in the 3 years since the law was passed than the previous 10 years.

MG-70 · Aug 11, 2016

BigToe said:
I had a conversation with the owner of my local firearm dealer....he said that he attended an FFL meeting with the Sheriff dept. for clarification of the HBAR rule. He was told that the only requisite for an AR-15 being legal in MD is that the manufacturer calls it an HBAR. He said it doesn't need to be stamped HBAR, and it doesn't have to meet a certain dimension or weight. He said as long as the manufacture documents it as an HBAR, he can sell it.

Can anyone else confirm this? Have any FFL dealers received more detailed information or clarification?

In his opinion, could "Heavy Barrel" be substituted for "Hbar", for instance, in an online description of a barrel or barreled upper?

Thanks

trickg · Aug 11, 2016

MG-70 said:
In his opinion, could "Heavy Barrel" be substituted for "Hbar", for instance, in an online description of a barrel or barreled upper?

Thanks

Don't they both fundamentally mean the same thing?

vgplayer · Aug 11, 2016

MG-70 said:
Guys, from my search here, and in speaking with my FFL, I realize the state police hasn't described exactly what a "heavy barrel" is, and most people seem to think it's better that way.

Is there a general consensus on what "heavy barrel" means?

I'm thinking of assembling an upper incorporating a Wylde or 5.56 chamber, rifle length gas system, and an 18" overall barrel, with the last few inches, ahead of the gas block, being .720" or .730" thick (I haven't bought the parts, some manufacturers differ a bit). From the gas port backward it measures approximately .840" and over.

I just measured my old school Bushmaster 20" upper, literally stamped "Hbar", and the thinnest area of the barrel, again, in front of the gas block, measures .720." Behind the gas block, all the way back, it is either .750" or thicker (I couldn't easily remove the handguards, but will try later with the tool).

Obviously, I don't want to break the law, which is the reason I have researched the topic and am still looking for answers.

In your opinions, would the 18" barrel described above comply with the "heavy barrel" rule?

If not, then can those of you more learned in the law and/or rules and opinions, suggest alternatives for me to build an 18" upper within those laws/rules/opinions, without it being a pistol or SBR?

Thanks, and sorry if this has been covered. Since it's an important aspect of gun ownership in MD these days, perhaps a "sticky" can be posted for quick reference.

Thanks in advance!

MG-70 said:
Please let's not take the thread in that direction. Let's try to keep it informational, especially since there's not much in terms of "heavy barrel" guidelines.

If a law, rule, or opinion, is defined by the state, then it's not "self-induced". I too believe that, much like the magazine restrictions, you're not going to be busted for having a barrel that's .02" thinner than one stamped Hbar, but that they will tack on additional charges if/when you do get busted for any serious offense. For this reason, and the fact that I have much to lose, I follow the rules.

As much as most cops, like most everyone else, haven't memorized the fine text, once they confiscate, research the books, and take measurements, you're up the creek.

Cheers

MG-70 said:
In his opinion, could "Heavy Barrel" be substituted for "Hbar", for instance, in an online description of a barrel or barreled upper?

Thanks

You are literally asking the community for its "self-induced" definition. As swinokur stated the MSP said advertised as or marked as heavy barrel. That is all we have to go on.

MG-70 · Aug 11, 2016

trickg said:
Don't they both fundamentally mean the same thing?

To me they do, as a matter of fact, an unmarked barrel that follows the contour of one marked Hbar or Heavy Barrel to me is the same, but the point I'm trying to make is that in the state police's website, it states "heavy barrel", and the above-mentioned sheriff supposedly used the term "Hbar."

One very small detail can make the rifle non-compliant.

Assuming it's easily accessible, why not post the document, or text of the same, that defines the law, or opinion, in the sticky section?

Thanks

MG-70 · Aug 11, 2016

VGplayer, you lost me at "self-induced," though I clearly understand the advertised or marked as heavy barrel, to which I will add Hbar, for my own purposes.

Thanks

KevinK · Aug 11, 2016

MG-70 said:
To me they do, as a matter of fact, an unmarked barrel that follows the contour of one marked Hbar or Heavy Barrel to me is the same, but the point I'm trying to make is that in the state police's website, it states "heavy barrel", and the above-mentioned sheriff supposedly used the term "Hbar."

One very small detail can make the rifle non-compliant.

Assuming it's easily accessible, why not post the document, or text of the same, that defines the law, or opinion, in the sticky section?

Thanks

I don't believe there is any formal documentation. Pretty sure what is posted below was spoken to some FFLs and others. It is not codified in law.

swinokur said:
MSP has stated if it's advertised as a heavy barrel or stamped as a heavy barrel-it's an HBAR. Nothing else really exists AFAIK.

Boom Boom · Aug 11, 2016

MG-70 said:
VGplayer, you lost me at "self-induced," though I clearly understand the advertised or marked as heavy barrel, to which I will add Hbar, for my own purposes.

Thanks

He's saying not to act based on opinions stated in this forum. Go by MSP guidance, as mentioned already. While MSP guidance is limited, in many ways that's a good thing.

Alphabrew · Aug 11, 2016

I wanted to build an upper using the Faxon GUNNER 18" mid length barrel but ultimately could not convince myself that it was an HBAR barrel. I still haven't selected a barrel, maybe I'll look at the ones at Engage. I need to go there Saturday to pick up some lowers anyway.

Digby · Aug 11, 2016

MG-70 said:
Please let's not take the thread in that direction. Let's try to keep it informational, especially since there's not much in terms of "heavy barrel" guidelines.

If a law, rule, or opinion, is defined by the state, then it's not "self-induced". I too believe that, much like the magazine restrictions, you're not going to be busted for having a barrel that's .02" thinner than one stamped Hbar, but that they will tack on additional charges if/when you do get busted for any serious offense. For this reason, and the fact that I have much to lose, I follow the rules.

As much as most cops, like most everyone else, haven't memorized the fine text, once they confiscate, research the books, and take measurements, you're up the creek.

Cheers

MG-70 -- I'm with you. I may not agree with the limitations imposed by the law, but I'll do it the legal way or I won't do it at all. The problem here is understanding what the law is.

dblas · Aug 11, 2016

MG-70 said:
In his opinion, could "Heavy Barrel" be substituted for "Hbar", for instance, in an online description of a barrel or barreled upper?

Thanks

The Sherriff's Departments in Maryland have no say in what can and can't be substituted with regards to firearms. Only MSP Licensing Division can do that. And they have provided guidance in the past that Heavy Barrel and HBAR are one and the same.

dblas · Aug 11, 2016

BigToe said:
I had a conversation with the owner of my local firearm dealer....he said that he attended an FFL meeting with the Sheriff dept. for clarification of the HBAR rule. He was told that the only requisite for an AR-15 being legal in MD is that the manufacturer calls it an HBAR. He said it doesn't need to be stamped HBAR, and it doesn't have to meet a certain dimension or weight. He said as long as the manufacture documents it as an HBAR, he can sell it.

Can anyone else confirm this? Have any FFL dealers received more detailed information or clarification?

Maryland State Police provided this guidance last year.

rbird7282 · Aug 11, 2016

HBAR means heavy barrel. As long as it's stamped or sold that way, you're GTG.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

trickg · Aug 11, 2016

BigToe said:
Not only that, they are unregulated, cash and cary. In fact many non-regulated firearms (CZ-58, AR-10, .300, etc.) have become much more popular in MD. And a lot of AR and AK pistols are being sold...I'm sure a lot more than before the ban.

He said HBAR, but not sure if he was differentiating. Now he was talking about fully assembled rifles. If you assemble the rifle yourself, then you are the manufacturer, so I would think that having HBAR stamped on the barrel could save you some headaches.

BUT....LEO aren't visiting ranges and asking for dated receipts for pre-ban rifles. The only way you would be charged for possession of a post-ban rifle is if you commit a crime with it, or your firearms are confiscated.

In the first case, you're an idiot. In the second case, as long as you have some documentation designating the firearm or barrel as an HBAR (or heavy barrel), I'd imagine you are OK. And being that barrels are not serial numbered, how can they really match any given barrel to a receipt?

I am NOT condoning assembling an illegal rifle...just pointing out how nonsensical these restrictions really are.

This is kind of what I was driving at, although without knowing who might be viewing our content, I was hesitant to come right out and say it.

I just think that it's kind of interesting that the net effect of the law was virtually nil - we can still have all the mags we want, we just have to get them elsewhere, (PA, VA, WV) and it actually made things EASIER where ARs are concerned because it turned an HBAR AR into a cash-n-carry item. They may have always been cash-n-carry, but the law made us turn to them as the alternative to the non-HBAR AR.

BusaJ52 · Aug 11, 2016

I bought this for my new ar.. although the barrel isnt itself marked hbar. https://www.customar15.net/shop/ar-15-upper-receivers/barrels-ar-15-upper-receivers/18-wylde-stainless-twist-fluted-heavy-barrel/

Blacksmith101 · Aug 11, 2016

If you look at the history of the exemption it stems from the specific allowance of an exception for the "Colt HBAR Sporter" (which is no longer manufactured) which has been interpreted by the State to include other makes and models that are essentially similar to the specifically named rifle.

If this question ever gets to court I am sure the lawyers on both sides will enjoy arguing over how many angels can dance on an HBAR barrel and will be comparing weights, actual dimensions, and average dimensions as well as every other comparison that can be made. If a skinny 16" barrel is heavier than an HBAR 14.5" barrel and does that include the pinned flash hider when stainless has a higher density than chrome molly.........

eruby · Aug 11, 2016

BusaJ52 said:
I bought this for my new ar.. although the barrel isnt itself marked hbar. https://www.customar15.net/shop/ar-15-upper-receivers/barrels-ar-15-upper-receivers/18-wylde-stainless-twist-fluted-heavy-barrel/

Advertised as heavy barrel so A-Ok according to MSP. :thumbsup:

BusaJ52 · Aug 11, 2016

eruby said:
Advertised as heavy barrel so A-Ok according to MSP.

I keep a printed copy of the web page in range bag for the hell of it.

MG-70 · Aug 11, 2016

Thank you. Assuming this and other "guidance" has been written, be it in paper or internet, why not assemble a locked thread and post it as a sticky, so more people have a clearer understanding about what's allowed and what isn't? I understand that even if they're not part of the law, if they are what is being enforced, then the more people know about them, the better everyone is, with the exception of the antis.

We should also assemble a thread of various manufacturers barrels stamped or advertised as "Heavy" or "Heavy Barrel," or "Hbar", "HBAR", etc., preferably with the barrel specifics, such as length, type steel, chamber, twist, interior and exterior finish, length of gas system, etc.

I appreciate all the good feedback, even if I discovered stuff I didn't like!

Opinions on whether the barrel below complies with "heavy barrel"? SPR-like profile

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