Email blast from Pat Toomey

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  • Javo-J10

    Active Member
    Dec 26, 2016
    103
    Hanover, PA
    I thought the MDS think tank might be interested in this email I received from my PA Republican senator. I’m still contemplating my response to his office. Except for the enforcement part, it is quite disappointing.

    “The mass shootings in El Paso and Dayton are the latest, horrific examples of the violent scourge that is gripping America. The perpetrators of these murders are cowards. We can and must do more to keep guns out of the hands of psychopaths.

    Since the shootings last weekend, I have had good conversations with President Trump, Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell, and a number of my Senate colleagues about how we can make progress on gun safety while fully respecting the Second Amendment rights of law-abiding citizens.

    We should work to address three shortfalls in our current background check system.

    Bipartisan legislation, such as what I offered with Senator Joe Manchin (D-W.Va.) several years ago, would be a good place to start. The Manchin-Toomey bill requires background checks for all commercial sales, including sales at gun shows or over the Internet that are not currently subject to background checks.

    We must also enforce existing gun laws. I've introduced a bipartisan bill with Senator Chris Coons (D-Del.) that directs the FBI to notify state law enforcement when a person who's prohibited from getting a gun lies about their criminal background in an attempt to buy one. That is a felony - and it goes almost entirely unprosecuted today. I discussed our legislation at length during a press conference this week in Philadelphia.

    I also agree with Senator Lindsey Graham that we should pass a bipartisan "red flag" measure that enables families and law enforcement to obtain a court order to keep guns away from dangerous individuals while respecting due process rights.

    While no law will end mass shootings entirely, it's past time for Congress to act to help keep our communities safer. I am encouraged by the willingness of President Trump to engage with me and Senator Manchin on this issue and I will continue working to build support for these commonsense approaches to help keep our communities safe.

    To further discuss my proposals, I joined Jake Tapper, Andrea Mitchell, and Neil Cavuto this week.”
     

    pbharvey

    Habitual Testifier
    MDS Supporter
    Dec 27, 2012
    30,155
    Ask him if these new and improved background checks will stop the likes of Major Hasan and Adam Lanza. One was a trusted member of the US Army and one stole his mother’s gun after shooting her in the head.
     

    rseymorejr

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Feb 28, 2011
    26,007
    Harford County
    " The Manchin-Toomey bill requires background checks for all commercial sales, including sales at gun shows or over the Internet that are not currently subject to background checks."

    Isn't this already the law? Don't all dealers already do the background checks at gun shows? Don't all internet purchases already go through an FFL?
    What is he talking about?
     

    SigZag

    Member
    Aug 4, 2019
    35
    Rockville
    Hey Javo-j10 if you don't mind, when you respond can you ask him what exactly are the websites where I can order firearms with no background checks then report back here, thanks!
     

    Javo-J10

    Active Member
    Dec 26, 2016
    103
    Hanover, PA
    Hey Javo-j10 if you don't mind, when you respond can you ask him what exactly are the websites where I can order firearms with no background checks then report back here, thanks!


    That had me scratching my head as well. I also want to hear more about how he proposes to present red flag legislation without violating due process. He made it sound it it will be a breeze....don’t worry folks! Ol’ Pat and his bipartisan gun coalition have your back!

    He says a bunch of stuff that rides the wave of media sentiment, but says nothing at all at the same time. Typical, of course.

    I’m seeing him mentioned more on media coverage of national issues. I’m guessing he is gearing up for something in 2024.
     

    Javo-J10

    Active Member
    Dec 26, 2016
    103
    Hanover, PA
    I haven’t read the Manchin-Toomey amendment that failed. The summaries I’ve read state that they were looking to limit sales and transfers w/o background checks to family and close friends. And require checks on sales at gun shows and sites like gunbroker, that result in face to face sales...where currently permitted.

    But when a politician says this will have no effect on the law abiding gun owner, I issue a red-flag.
     

    fidelity

    piled higher and deeper
    MDS Supporter
    Aug 15, 2012
    22,400
    Frederick County
    If I remember correctly, the Democrats had a 54-46 majority in the Senate back then, and Republicans like McCain and Collins crossed over to support it. However, there were enough conservative Democrats at the time to move to the opposition side of the bill, such that a fillibuster killed it. Obama was furious that he couldn't sign it.

    The thing that would absolutely ensure it passes this time is Trump saying that he would sign it. Most of the Democrats would get behind it, and many of the Republicans as well.
     

    rascal

    Ultimate Member
    Feb 15, 2013
    1,253
    Hey Javo-j10 if you don't mind, when you respond can you ask him what exactly are the websites where I can order firearms with no background checks then report back here, thanks!

    The problem is while the general public thinks this is the case, in fact 99.9% or more of gun sales "over the internet" are via FFLs, with a background check, or else a crime.

    BUT there probably are cases where private sales within a state are facilitated part "over the internet" since that includes even email. Just as we all know there are places in the US where, in fact most states allow guns to be bought at gun shows without FFL.

    I think toomey is not as of the mark here as you think, since he inserts several elements of key language that is helpful. EG it says "commercial" sales meaning not applicable to family or neighbor sales, not applicable to sales by persons who don't sell guns for a living.

    Fact is "UBC" gets stunning amount of popular support in surveys and polling, not just all Dems supporting it, but even majority of Republicans and Independents. We are talking about 90% rates of support.

    In the real world the issue is more about who is going to write it? People like Toomey or people like Feinstein? Do you want it to exclude family transfers and small amounts sold say as part of an estate, or do you want those to be included if Bloomberg gets his way?
     

    marko

    Banned
    BANNED!!!
    Jan 28, 2009
    7,048
    We must also enforce existing gun laws.

    To me, THAT is the SINE QUA NON of the argument.

    Law ENFORCEMENT is not lax, its the Judges, etc. Enforce the laws, guys.
    If its 10 years for a felony with a weapon, why then, its 10 years. Nothing else, nothing less, no plea, NOTHING. Open and shut.
    LAY THE LAW DOWN, and it will deter a few. Will save SOME lives.
     

    rbird7282

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Dec 6, 2012
    18,531
    Columbia
    There is no such thing as an internet sale without a background check with the possible exception of a private sale entirely in the same state.
    I really wish Republicans would stop talking about it as though you can just go online, but it, and have it shipped to your door without a background check.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     

    rbird7282

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Dec 6, 2012
    18,531
    Columbia
    The problem is while the general public thinks this is the case, in fact 99.9% or more of gun sales "over the internet" are via FFLs, with a background check, or else a crime.



    BUT there probably are cases where private sales within a state are facilitated part "over the internet" since that includes even email. Just as we all know there are places in the US where, in fact most states allow guns to be bought at gun shows without FFL.



    I think toomey is not as of the mark here as you think, since he inserts several elements of key language that is helpful. EG it says "commercial" sales meaning not applicable to family or neighbor sales, not applicable to sales by persons who don't sell guns for a living.



    Fact is "UBC" gets stunning amount of popular support in surveys and polling, not just all Dems supporting it, but even majority of Republicans and Independents. We are talking about 90% rates of support.



    In the real world the issue is more about who is going to write it? People like Toomey or people like Feinstein? Do you want it to exclude family transfers and small amounts sold say as part of an estate, or do you want those to be included if Bloomberg gets his way?



    There are not 90% rates of support for UBC’s. (Maybe if your sample size is 500 people)


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     

    rascal

    Ultimate Member
    Feb 15, 2013
    1,253
    Ask him if these new and improved background checks will stop the likes of Major Hasan and Adam Lanza. One was a trusted member of the US Army and one stole his mother’s gun after shooting her in the head.

    Please be careful. Odessa Texas mass shooter from last week was turned down FFL after flagging by FBI NICS for mental illness. He then went and bought his AR in a private sale in Texas, that is currently allowed in Texas but wold not be a legal for the seller to do under most of the proposed federal or state UBC laws.

    So let's take care not to give our enemies ammunition by making arguments that can be turned around.
     

    XCheckR

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Mar 20, 2013
    4,198
    HdG
    Gun show sales and internet sales that arent subject.....wtf.

    Also how is he going to get around HIPPaa for mental health reporting and how he plans to unseal juvenile records...
     

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