1898 krag carbine??

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  • Nothing leads me to beleive it isn’t anyway. But I am honestly not enough of an expert to tell a good fake and a real one apart. Either way I’d take any Krag for $400 in good shape and laugh all the way home. But a real carbine I am sure is worth well North of $1000.

    A SRS confirmed authentic '98 Carbine would be in the $4-6000+ range.
    As stated earlier, there are so many fake '98 carbines out there, they are all assumed to be fakes until proven otherwise. Conversely, a '95/'96 carbine has a very distinct stock which could not be modified from a '96 rifle, so they were rarely faked. All '99s were carbines.
     

    Zorros

    Ultimate Member
    Dec 10, 2017
    1,407
    Metropolis
    A SRS confirmed authentic '98 Carbine would be in the $4-6000+ range.
    As stated earlier, there are so many fake '98 carbines out there, they are all assumed to be fakes until proven otherwise. Conversely, a '95/'96 carbine has a very distinct stock which could not be modified from a '96 rifle, so they were rarely faked. All '99s were carbines.

    123037 not listed in SRS.
     
    123037 not listed in SRS.

    Take it to next year's Timonium antique show. Carl Weiss usually has a display set up and he is a full blown expert on Krags. Hell, there are two 1892 Krag carbines in existence. One is at the SA museum and Carl has the other.

    The biggest red flag to me is the 1902 rifle rear sight on yours. They look similar to the 1898 rear sight and without a side by side comparison, most wouldn't notice the difference. These sights were common on the DCM and Bannerman '98 "carbines".

    Can you post a picture of the saddle ring?
     

    Zorros

    Ultimate Member
    Dec 10, 2017
    1,407
    Metropolis
    Take it to next year's Timonium antique show. Carl Weiss usually has a display set up and he is a full blown expert on Krags. Hell, there are two 1892 Krag carbines in existence. One is at the SA museum and Carl has the other.

    The biggest red flag to me is the 1902 rifle rear sight on yours. They look similar to the 1898 rear sight and without a side by side comparison, most wouldn't notice the difference. These sights were common on the DCM and Bannerman '98 "carbines".

    Can you post a picture of the saddle ring?
    Great suggestion for next year’s show. The rear sight is a 1902... has a swing up apperature. I have read these replaced many earlier carbine sights because they did not require protection in the scabbard. This stock does not have a carbine swivel, nor a hump protecting the rear sight. I have read the DCM and bannerman cutdowns used a 1903 style sight with a band. I have had this for about 4 years and every once in a while i get obssessed with finding out what it is or was.
     
    Great suggestion for next year’s show. The rear sight is a 1902... has a swing up apperature. I have read these replaced many earlier carbine sights because they did not require protection in the scabbard. This stock does not have a carbine swivel, nor a hump protecting the rear sight. I have read the DCM and bannerman cutdowns used a 1903 style sight with a band. I have had this for about 4 years and every once in a while i get obssessed with finding out what it is or was.

    Front sight are often from a 1903 barrel when home gunsmiths (early Bubbas) did them- easily spotted. They are not fakes, rather surplus rifles converted to deer rifles.
    Your 1898 "carbine" is either the real deal (unlikely) or a cut rifle intended to replicate the carbine.
    The saddle ring I'm asking about is the item pictured above the trigger. It is on my 1895 stamped early variant of a '96 carbine.
     

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    I just noticed another "it is a fake' from your pictures...
    The real '98 carbines had a '96 style barrel band/sight protector with a '96 rear sight or they had a '98 handguard protecting the '98 rear sight. You have a '98 barrel band with a not matching handguard.
    The wood in front of the band is narrower than the rest of the stock. Do you have a barrel spring? (It holds the barrel band in place- not screws)
    My skillset is nowhere near high enough to determine whether a '98 carbine is authentic. However, there are enough red flags that your 1898, w/no SRS hit, did not leave SA as a carbine.
     

    Zorros

    Ultimate Member
    Dec 10, 2017
    1,407
    Metropolis
    I just noticed another "it is a fake' from your pictures...
    The real '98 carbines had a '96 style barrel band/sight protector with a '96 rear sight or they had a '98 handguard protecting the '98 rear sight. You have a '98 barrel band with a not matching handguard.
    The wood in front of the band is narrower than the rest of the stock. Do you have a barrel spring? (It holds the barrel band in place- not screws)
    My skillset is nowhere near high enough to determine whether a '98 carbine is authentic. However, there are enough red flags that your 1898, w/no SRS hit, did not leave SA as a carbine.
    Good morning. A fine day after all the rain. Yes, this has a barrel spring, no screws. It has the 99 or later band because it has the 02 sight, set further back and not needing scabbard protection. This could have been a refurb at the arsenal. Many were refurbed by the arsenal for improved sights, new barrels, etc. no saddle ring, as the 98 never had one...army had gone to scabbards, and the rear sight, on the 98s, needed protection from damage, ina and out. This the band on the original 98. If it is a intentional fake, it is somewhat recent, because he cmp and bannermans, a majority of the converters, an dothers wanting a woods rifle, used the 03front sight with a barrel band. Ths one has the proper siht, but neither rear or front are carbine sights, deepening the mystery. This barrel is exactly 22”, and it is crowned. The stock is carbine, but i believe a replacement..maybe the gun was rearsenaled. I am not arguing for or against originality, to be clear. I have learned a bit posting this here an on another forum and reading, again, the poyer book, althouh that book leaves unaswered as many questions as it answers. Just saying what i think ( even as opposed to what i know). Someone suggested taking it to the antique show next march.




    and it does not have the 98 band
     
    Good morning. A fine day after all the rain. Yes, this has a barrel spring, no screws. It has the 99 or later band because it has the 02 sight, set further back and not needing scabbard protection. This could have been a refurb at the arsenal. Many were refurbed by the arsenal for improved sights, new barrels, etc. no saddle ring, as the 98 never had one...army had gone to scabbards, and the rear sight, on the 98s, needed protection from damage, ina and out. This the band on the original 98. If it is a intentional fake, it is somewhat recent, because he cmp and bannermans, a majority of the converters, an dothers wanting a woods rifle, used the 03front sight with a barrel band. Ths one has the proper siht, but neither rear or front are carbine sights, deepening the mystery. This barrel is exactly 22”, and it is crowned. The stock is carbine, but i believe a replacement..maybe the gun was rearsenaled. I am not arguing for or against originality, to be clear. I have learned a bit posting this here an on another forum and reading, again, the poyer book, althouh that book leaves unaswered as many questions as it answers. Just saying what i think ( even as opposed to what i know). Someone suggested taking it to the antique show next march.




    and it does not have the 98 band

    I'm trying to help; not be rude. There are many things about your firearm that say it isn't a genuine '98 carbine.
    If it was a SA or RIA restock, there would be no cartouche, yet there would be a seriph "P" with a date behind the trigger guard on the bottom of the stock.
    Springfield Krags are the one firearm I feel I am one of MDS' most knowledgeable about. Mawkie probably has me beat, but not too many others.
    Log on to KCA and poke around. Check out Jouster, go their Krag subforum and ask a few questions with detailed pictures. I would listen closely to what Dick Hosmer, Joe (5madfarmers) or Carl Weiss have to say. Those three know a lot more than Joe Poyer. Sadly Col. Bill Mook is no longer with us- he was the king of Krags.
     

    Zorros

    Ultimate Member
    Dec 10, 2017
    1,407
    Metropolis
    I'm trying to help; not be rude. There are many things about your firearm that say it isn't a genuine '98 carbine.
    If it was a SA or RIA restock, there would be no cartouche, yet there would be a seriph "P" with a date behind the trigger guard on the bottom of the stock.
    Springfield Krags are the one firearm I feel I am one of MDS' most knowledgeable about. Mawkie probably has me beat, but not too many others.
    Log on to KCA and poke around. Check out Jouster, go their Krag subforum and ask a few questions with detailed pictures. I would listen closely to what Dick Hosmer, Joe (5madfarmers) or Carl Weiss have to say. Those three know a lot more than Joe Poyer. Sadly Col. Bill Mook is no longer with us- he was the king of Krags.[/QUOTE

    Never took your comments as rude or anything but helpful. I appreciate u taking the time. This stock has no cartouche and has a faint circle on the stock to the rear of the trigger guard.
     

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