Wrenn PI Granted (DC Shall Issue)

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  • frogman68

    товарищ плачевная
    Apr 7, 2013
    8,774
    Any guidance on how long the Circuit will ponder whether a full en banc is warranted is this case?

    If DCC declines en banc, does the PI take immediate effect? Or does the current scheme remain in place until SCOTUS makes a Cert decision? Of course D.C. takes any unfavorable decision to SCOTUS.

    Based on reading the "appeal", any experienced hands have any post happy hour predictions?

    3 percent chance it will be 2 weeks :lol2:

    The lower karma is still open till the en banc decision!!!!!
     

    Gryphon

    inveniam viam aut faciam
    Patriot Picket
    Mar 8, 2013
    6,993
    You'd think that being the seat of Govt., upholding the BOR would be most the important ideal for DC to accomplish

    Not to the Bolsheviks running DC

    Exactly. If the framers wanted to exempt the seat of government they could had said so. Their silence on the issue should be deafening to anyone with a brain and a little intellectual and historical integrity.
     

    Mark75H

    MD Wear&Carry Instructor
    Industry Partner
    MDS Supporter
    Sep 25, 2011
    17,172
    Outside the Gates
    Exactly. If the framers wanted to exempt the seat of government they could had said so. Their silence on the issue should be deafening to anyone with a brain and a little intellectual and historical integrity.

    I don't think the seat had home rule back then. Congress was DC's government ... and technically still is.
     

    press1280

    Ultimate Member
    Jun 11, 2010
    7,878
    WV
    Any guidance on how long the Circuit will ponder whether a full en banc is warranted is this case?

    If DCC declines en banc, does the PI take immediate effect? Or does the current scheme remain in place until SCOTUS makes a Cert decision? Of course D.C. takes any unfavorable decision to SCOTUS.

    Based on reading the "appeal", any experienced hands have any post happy hour predictions?

    Wrenn should get a reply due in maybe 30 days, then DC can reply to that within another 2 weeks or so. Not sure of the exact timetable but more briefs are due.
    By the court's order it should be 7 days after final decision, of course DC could ask for a stay from SCOTUS if they plan to file for cert.
    I won't make any predictions but I'll re-iterate that Wrenn's team ought to stall this as long as possible and hope that Norman goes to conference with this opinion standing. I'm sure DC will not oppose any delays.
     

    GTOGUNNER

    IANAL, PATRIOT PICKET!!
    Patriot Picket
    Dec 16, 2010
    5,492
    Carroll County!
    Where did I miss that most gun control was as result of the fact that Freed Slaves could own guns. That is a concise Historical Analysis. Gun control has racist roots.
     

    motorcoachdoug

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    I think DC gov is afraid losing control over its citizens and those who come to visit the nations capitol. They are power hungry, $$$$$ hungry, and full of the California Liberal BS as well. Wondering how many of DC top tier officials went to collage in CA,NJ,NY or CT or had a family member who went to collage in those states and sprouted that liberal bs at home?They just dont get it that when law abiding citizens are allowed to carry crime will go down. Who knows mabe they dont want crime to go down because they would lose all that federal funding to fight crime in DC.They have to justify to fed DOJ why they need that $$$ and with crime up like it is , they can point and say see lookie here at all this crime we are having to put up with...I am most deferentially raising the :bs: here...on their way of thinking.....
     

    swinokur

    In a State of Bliss
    Patriot Picket
    Apr 15, 2009
    55,394
    Westminster USA
    From SAF:

    D.C. REQUESTS EN BANC FEDERAL COURT HEARING ON SAF’S WRENN CCW CASE​

    BELLEVUE, WA – The District of Columbia has filed an appeal with the U.S. District Court of Appeals requesting an en banc hearing in a case recently won by the Second Amendment Foundation that struck down the “good reason” requirement for obtaining a concealed carry permit.

    The case is Wrenn v. District of Columbia.

    “The Second Amendment Foundation expected the City of Washington, DC to file this appeal in an attempt to try to overturn our court victory that said their virtual ban on the right to carry a firearm for self-protection was unconstitutional,” said SAF founder and Executive Vice President Alan M. Gottlieb.

    SAF has been battling the city over this issue for some time. The city has strenuously resisted these legal efforts, arguing in its latest petition that the city is “unique” because of its dense population that includes “thousands of high-ranking federal officials and international diplomats.” But earlier this summer, the District Court of Appeals majority opinion is that the “good reason” restriction violates the Second Amendment rights of citizens living in the district.

    “They have no intention of complying with any court decision that supports the right to keep and bear arms,” Gottlieb said. “It took the Heller decision to force them to allow a gun in your own home for self-defense. It took the Palmer decision, another SAF case, to force them to repeal their total ban on carry and now they are kicking and screaming about losing the Wrenn decision.”
    Gottlieb maintains that even if the District is “unique,” the citizens living there still retain their right to keep and bear arms under the Second Amendment. The city’s “good reason” requirement makes it far too easy to deny all but a few people their rights on the flimsy grounds that average citizens never have a good enough reason. The court recognized this problem and ruled against the District’s requirement, he noted.

    “Municipal stubbornness cannot be allowed to outweigh the constitution,” Gottlieb said. “A civil right should not be subject to bureaucratic neurosis.”

    The Second Amendment Foundation (www.saf.org) is the nation's oldest and largest tax-exempt education, research, publishing and legal action group focusing on the Constitutional right and heritage to privately own and possess firearms. Founded in 1974, The Foundation has grown to more than 650,000 members and supporters and conducts many programs designed to better inform the public about the consequences of gun control.


    ________________________________________






    < Please e-mail, distribute, and circulate to friends and family >
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    Bellevue, WA 98005 Voice: 425-454-7012
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    bkuether

    Judge not this race .....
    Jan 18, 2012
    6,212
    Marriottsville, MD
    Ah finally some REAL "Common Sense".

    This pretty much sums up the legislation fight in all of the libtard states, including ours.

    “A civil right should not be subject to bureaucratic neurosis.”
     

    Biggfoot44

    Ultimate Member
    Aug 2, 2009
    32,881
    Can DC still issue two and only two Permits to Wrenn and Grace and moot the case ?

    ********

    Historically Gun Control laws weren't ONLY racially motivated . New York's infamous Sullivan Law was particularly aimed at non- WASP immigrants. Tenn's 19th Century gun laws and similar ones were also economically aimed at non- affluent people of all groups .
     

    HaveBlue

    HaveBlue
    Dec 4, 2014
    733
    Virginia
    I think we should stop calling it a "virtual ban" and just call it a ban. I think its only fair to give them the opportunity to explain how it isn't.

    I can't think of a single reason why they would even try.
     

    GlocksAndPatriots

    Banned
    BANNED!!!
    Aug 29, 2016
    763
    Take your silly bill of rights and suck it, they say.

    Even accepting their argument that D.C. is entirely urban (I consider some parts of D.C. to be more suburban), I haven't seen any evidence that the 2nd Amendment should not apply in cities. New York City has made the same argument, also without evidence.
     

    esqappellate

    President, MSI
    Feb 12, 2012
    7,407
    Wrenn should get a reply due in maybe 30 days, then DC can reply to that within another 2 weeks or so. Not sure of the exact timetable but more briefs are due.
    By the court's order it should be 7 days after final decision, of course DC could ask for a stay from SCOTUS if they plan to file for cert.
    I won't make any predictions but I'll re-iterate that Wrenn's team ought to stall this as long as possible and hope that Norman goes to conference with this opinion standing. I'm sure DC will not oppose any delays.

    Here is how it works. No response is permitted until or unless the Court requests one. See Rules 35 and 40, FRAP. The petition will not be granted unless a response is requested first. (Id). A response will be ordered if any judge wants it. I expect that here, if only because Henderson dissented. If a response is requested, it will be due by a date certain specified in that order. The court will then take whatever amount of time it needs. In Heller III, the DC petition for rehearing en banc took from Sept. to January, IIRC before it was denied.
     

    press1280

    Ultimate Member
    Jun 11, 2010
    7,878
    WV
    Here is how it works. No response is permitted until or unless the Court requests one. See Rules 35 and 40, FRAP. The petition will not be granted unless a response is requested first. (Id). A response will be ordered if any judge wants it. I expect that here, if only because Henderson dissented. If a response is requested, it will be due by a date certain specified in that order. The court will then take whatever amount of time it needs. In Heller III, the DC petition for rehearing en banc took from Sept. to January, IIRC before it was denied.

    On that note I'd expect if we do get en banc it'll happen relatively quickly, but if months drag on then it'll likely be a dissent or possibly a concurrence?
     

    esqappellate

    President, MSI
    Feb 12, 2012
    7,407
    On that note I'd expect if we do get en banc it'll happen relatively quickly, but if months drag on then it'll likely be a dissent or possibly a concurrence?

    I think a grant will be pretty quick, within a month or two. No one dissents from just a grant or writes an opinion supporting just a grant. If granted, each judge can write when the en banc opinion is released. A denial takes longer if anyone writes.
     

    fred333

    Banned
    BANNED!!!
    Dec 20, 2013
    12,340
    You'd think that being the seat of Govt., upholding the BOR would be most the important ideal for DC to accomplish
    Not to the Bolsheviks running DC

    :thumbsup:
    And remember: In spite of her lifelong history of criminality, lies and constitutional subterfuge, Hillary won the majority of popular votes; Sanders remains a potent ringleader for the lazy, unsuccessful and self-victimized; and Trump's not been a reliable pitchman for logic and reason. The trend doesn't look good, especially as the Gladwellian 'point was passed the day the majority of voters fairly and legally placed PAA in the White House (twice).

    The question, it seems to me, is: do Americans (i.e., legitimate citizens and non-hyphenators) have a [realistic] plan to deal with the coming clash of civilizations?
     

    HaveBlue

    HaveBlue
    Dec 4, 2014
    733
    Virginia
    I think a grant will be pretty quick, within a month or two. No one dissents from just a grant or writes an opinion supporting just a grant. If granted, each judge can write when the en banc opinion is released. A denial takes longer if anyone writes.

    Thank you for the summary of the procedure and which clues to look for in predicting intermediate outcomes.

    To broaden the milestone timeline a bit.
    En Banc grant 30 - 60 days.
    Then 3-6 months to schedule DCC?
    Then 3-12 months for a ruling from DCC En Banc? (Either side will appeal here)

    The 3-9 months for Cert request result? (I don't think SCOTUS wants to see the crisp line that ruling on this case would require)
    6-12 months for SCOTUS ruling? (If they prove me wrong)

    Does something in the 10-41 month range sound likely before we could see a change in status quo?

    Respectfully,
    HB
     

    jbrown50

    Ultimate Member
    Sep 18, 2014
    3,471
    DC
    Thank you for the summary of the procedure and which clues to look for in predicting intermediate outcomes.

    To broaden the milestone timeline a bit.
    En Banc grant 30 - 60 days.
    Then 3-6 months to schedule DCC?
    Then 3-12 months for a ruling from DCC En Banc? (Either side will appeal here)

    The 3-9 months for Cert request result? (I don't think SCOTUS wants to see the crisp line that ruling on this case would require)
    6-12 months for SCOTUS ruling? (If they prove me wrong)

    Does something in the 10-41 month range sound likely before we could see a change in status quo?

    Respectfully,
    HB

    The bright side is that we could possibly have another conservative justice on the SCOTUS by then. The Left's stall tactics could likely backfire on them.
     

    esqappellate

    President, MSI
    Feb 12, 2012
    7,407
    Thank you for the summary of the procedure and which clues to look for in predicting intermediate outcomes.

    To broaden the milestone timeline a bit.
    En Banc grant 30 - 60 days.
    Then 3-6 months to schedule DCC?
    Then 3-12 months for a ruling from DCC En Banc? (Either side will appeal here)

    The 3-9 months for Cert request result? (I don't think SCOTUS wants to see the crisp line that ruling on this case would require)
    6-12 months for SCOTUS ruling? (If they prove me wrong)

    Does something in the 10-41 month range sound likely before we could see a change in status quo?

    Respectfully,
    HB

    Roughly right. How long the DC Circuit would take to get to argument would depend on whether they asked for (or the parties asked for) supplemental briefing. 12 months would be about right for a decision after argument (given the high likelihood of dissents), maybe faster. A cert petition will be 90-150 days (3-5 months), max. Hardly anyone (other than the SG) asks for more than a 60 day extension, at least not without a very compelling reason. As to when the SCT would rule, it depends on when cert is granted. If granted before or in early January, then a ruling would be by late June that year. If granted after January, then argument would be next term in all likelihood, starting in Oct. with a decision possible early the next year.
     
    Last edited:

    swamplynx

    Active Member
    MDS Supporter
    Jul 28, 2014
    678
    DC
    The bright side is that we could possibly have another conservative justice on the SCOTUS by then. The Left's stall tactics could likely backfire on them.

    That would be the only circumstance where I would even hope this ends up at SCOTUS. Kennedy is too fickle, with too many prior similar cases denied cert (i.e. Puerta), that I think we are fooling ourselves to believe the Heller 5 still exists. God forbid this goes up, we loose, and it becomes the law of the land.

    Unless RBG kicks it, best outcome for us is the District is denied en banc and cert, and hooray we have shall issue in DC before Christmas, and a true split for a future SCOTUS. Second to that, if DC is granted and wins en banc, hopefully Congress says enough of this ******** from these insolent Marxist douchebags and pushes through Rubio's bill gutting the entirety of DC's totalitarian gun control scheme, mooting the case. We live to fight another day with Norman in a SCOTUS hopefully plus one or two Trump appointed justices by the time it's up.
     

    swinokur

    In a State of Bliss
    Patriot Picket
    Apr 15, 2009
    55,394
    Westminster USA
    Or if Ryan and Mitch get off their assess and do something with National Reciprocity., which looks doubtful with 60 votes needed in the Senate to do anything.
     

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