Dallas PD investigation Sig P320 safety

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  • Gryphon

    inveniam viam aut faciam
    Patriot Picket
    Mar 8, 2013
    6,993

    Thanks for the post. You know I have one and how much I like it. I'll sit tight until Sig says more about the specifics of a voluntary fix / recall. In the meantime I'll still carry it and avoid throwing it beaver tail first to the ground while wearing sandals. Maybe we can send a sample to Voda with some Sagamore for some testing :D
     

    DC-W

    Ultimate Member
    Patriot Picket
    Jan 23, 2013
    25,290
    ️‍
    TTAG met with SIG for them to show how they corrected the problem. Good read.
    http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2017/08/jeremy-s/mechanics-behind-sig-p320-drop-safety-failures/

    What’s happening in the P320 is a confluence of two separate occurrences:

    • The impact moves the trigger shoe rearwards through its pre-travel pivot. What may feel basically like slack or play in the trigger actually serves an important mechanical function: it moves the striker block safety out of the way. The trigger is telling the gun, “Okay, the trigger is being pulled on purpose, so clear the plunger out of the way of the striker so it’s free to travel far enough to impact the primer.”

    • The impact jars the internal components, tests the limits of the fit between chassis and slide, and the striker slips off the sear. Only because the striker plunger was also moved out of the way by the trigger’s limited-but-sufficient amount of travel does the striker fire forwards unimpeded and ignite the primer.

    We know this happens, because in both TTAG’s and SIG SAUER’s testing there were drop test incidents in which the striker released from the sear, but the gun didn’t fire. In those cases, the trigger hadn’t moved far enough (or soon enough) to clear the striker block. High-speed video (and reasonable postulation) showed other instances where the trigger moved far enough to clear the striker block but the striker did not slip off of the sear, and therefore the P320 also did not fire.

    Both occurrences must happen together, with the plunger moving out of the way before the striker attempts to move through that space, for the gun to discharge.

    SIG corrected it by removing mass from the trigger shoe, striker, and sear, and adding a trigger disconnect safety.

    SIG brought us into their testing facility today and demonstrated that three upgraded P320s were all functional and fired properly. They then proceeded to repeatedly drop each one onto concrete at that precise -30° problem angle from four feet. At least nine drops in, none had discharged. That’s saying something considering TTAG’s redneck test resulted in two discharges in three drops.

    Additionally, SIG showed us high-speed footage of both the current commercial P320 version and the upgraded trigger version impacting the concrete. The difference was night and day. While significant trigger travel was clearly visible on the current model, nothing but a quiver was visible on the new version.
     

    tkd4life

    Ultimate Member
    Sep 10, 2010
    1,737
    Southern Maryland
    SIG corrected it by removing mass from the trigger shoe, striker, and sear, and adding a trigger disconnect safety.

    I'm watching this pretty closely to see what Sig does for the logistics. Is this going to be a warranty repair or an upgrade that comes with a fee? I just picked up my 320 yesterday and along with it an Apex trigger. I'm going to be taking the factory trigger out tonight and compare its overall weight next to the Apex. Perhaps the Apex is enough to make this issue go away.
     

    Racer Doug14

    Thread killer
    MDS Supporter
    Patriot Picket
    Feb 22, 2013
    8,000
    Millers Maryland
    Seems like Sig is jumping on this pretty quick. They need to, this is a hot seller for them. Nevermind the DoD contract, which is huge.
     

    smokey

    2A TEACHER
    Jan 31, 2008
    31,369
    Ohhhh no glock d'int! Lolz
     

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    mopar92

    Official MDS Court Jester
    May 5, 2011
    9,513
    Taneytown
    One serious thing and one funny thing.

    1. It's VEEEEEEEEEEEEEEDDDDDDDDDDDDDYYYYYYY suspishus that SIG within a week (ish) timeframe confirmed the problem, tested and isolated the cause, and is now manufacturing and planning the release and distribution of a fix. Given the level of R&D in modern firearms and testing standards and the time needed for retooling leads me into questioning whether SIG knew about this problem before the Dallas PD incident.

    2. I was reading on the interwebz and someone said the next YouTube torture test is gonna be a fully loaded (with blanks) gun, and a clothes dryer as the ultimate drop test. I would watch that video 1000 times.
     

    redeemed.man

    Ultimate Member
    Apr 29, 2013
    17,444
    HoCo
    One serious thing and one funny thing.

    1. It's VEEEEEEEEEEEEEEDDDDDDDDDDDDDYYYYYYY suspishus that SIG within a week (ish) timeframe confirmed the problem, tested and isolated the cause, and is now manufacturing and planning the release and distribution of a fix. Given the level of R&D in modern firearms and testing standards and the time needed for retooling leads me into questioning whether SIG knew about this problem before the Dallas PD incident.

    2. I was reading on the interwebz and someone said the next YouTube torture test is gonna be a fully loaded gun, and a clothes dryer as the ultimate drop test. I would watch that video 1000 times.
    Agreed, a solution this quick for a problem they weren't aware of? BS
     

    trailtoy

    GOA, MSI, NRA
    MDS Supporter
    May 19, 2013
    1,477
    St. Marys
    My question would be: If this is a 'non-standard' drop test, who came up with it and has it been done to other pistols? And who decided to try this particular test on the 320?
    Did someone tear one down and study it trying to find a weakness and then leak that info to someone? Many questions.
     

    MikeTF

    Ultimate Member
    My question would be: If this is a 'non-standard' drop test, who came up with it and has it been done to other pistols? And who decided to try this particular test on the 320?
    Did someone tear one down and study it trying to find a weakness and then leak that info to someone? Many questions.
    I'm going to focus on your first question: why wasn't this a standard test?
     

    judah7

    Banned
    BANNED!!!
    Mar 18, 2017
    691
    So somebody is bashing the sig because it lost the dod contract. Im not a fan of sig because if I was going to buy one or the other out right it would be a glock, however I rather go XD or M&P. Cant wait to get my m&p40c :)
     

    TheGunnyRet

    Ultimate Member
    Mar 27, 2014
    2,234
    Falling Waters, WV
    Glock is being a Sore loser and yet Glock doesn't give a rats A$$ about supporting the "Gun Movement" or against the Anti's, were SIG does to a degree...

    So Glock acting arrogant looses my support in anyway shape or form...never liked Glock anyway JMO.
     

    redeemed.man

    Ultimate Member
    Apr 29, 2013
    17,444
    HoCo
    For Sig to have a fix available immediately upon "discovery" of this issue indicates they knew of the issue and decided not to announce a recall until someone else discovered it. Apparently, sales trumped safety.
     

    DC-W

    Ultimate Member
    Patriot Picket
    Jan 23, 2013
    25,290
    ️‍
    Glock is being a Sore loser and yet Glock doesn't give a rats A$$ about supporting the "Gun Movement" or against the Anti's, were SIG does to a degree...

    So Glock acting arrogant looses my support in anyway shape or form...never liked Glock anyway JMO.


    Yeah. Screw that blasted capitalism and silly principles like freedom of speech.

    C'mon, man. You've never made fun of someone?

    Companies flame one another all time time and I can bet if you search you can find SIG doing it to Glock, and other companies.

    That's the name of the game!
     

    mopar92

    Official MDS Court Jester
    May 5, 2011
    9,513
    Taneytown
    My question would be: If this is a 'non-standard' drop test, who came up with it and has it been done to other pistols? And who decided to try this particular test on the 320?
    Did someone tear one down and study it trying to find a weakness and then leak that info to someone? Many questions.


    SIG P320 was being used at a firearms range (Dallas PD's). Gun was dropped accidentally and discharged.

    Various independent companies performed testing to replicate the issue. Issue was confirmed and SIGs announces they have magic wand to fix issue in less than 48 hours.
     

    clandestine

    AR-15 Savant
    Oct 13, 2008
    37,029
    Elkton, MD
    You guys realize that revolvers used to be carried with a dead cylinder before things like transfer bar right? Dropping a fixed firing pin revolver could lead to a discharge.

    It's pretty sad that people are such fanboys that they are willing to carry a gun that can discharge when dropped. There is nothing special about the drop. The design of the gun is the problem. Even a dead blow hammer hitting the rear of the slide will set the weapon off.

    As Mopar said (which is 100% correct), this whole thing popped off because of the gun firing when it was dropped, THEN other people started doing testing. This isn't some conspiracy towards SIG, its people doing testing. I believe Mopar is spot on and SIG knew because their "fix" was all ready to go.
     

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