I'm in favor of mandatory training to own a gun

clandestine · Jan 17, 2018

Is this the MHPRB? Is this real life?

woodstock · Jan 17, 2018

i would be in favor of mandatory voting education for new citizens.

mvee · Jan 17, 2018

I really appreciate all the training I have been able to get. I have found it to be really helpful in improving my capabilities and confidence. I would like to receive more as I am able.

One of my best friends is retired military and now a policeman. He was telling me how he thought everyone with a gun should have to qualify every 6 months or whatever it is that he has to. I took isssue with that.

I was thinking there could be a hypothetical situation in which a frail 95 year old lady who has arthritis and weak bones and other health issues could find herself in need of a gun. She may be so weak and frail that shooting a gun once or twice would shatter the bones in her hands and arms. This lady would physically not be able to actively train or qualify. If she had a gun and needed to use it, she would be able to draw and end the confrontation or shoot and deal with any repercussions on her own health.

Iniagine how different it would be be if we knew everyone was going to need to use a firearm.

I think that in the past there were some hunter/ firearm education classes given in public schools. I never received any of this
type of training as I think it was before my time. They probably should offer this training. I was trained in drownproofing in 5th grade. It makes sense to offer some sort of state sponsored training before someone comes of age.

It might also make sense to open up range time at national guard or military bases available to the public, and also provide weapons and ammo and instruction.

I’ve actually heard of old guys who said they would shoot .22s at the local national guard armory’s when they were kids.

I know this is a pipe dream, and politically this could not happen, but if someone is pushing for mandatory training we could pushback with having different types of non-mandatory training be provided at no cost by the govt. this would hopefully improve the safety of everyone and not be a hindrance to those who aren’t able to use it.

Moon · Jan 17, 2018

woodstock said:
First off, would everyone here agree that in order to exercise our 1st amendment free speech rights, we have had MANDATORY training? yes or no?

No.

for those who say NO, if you didn't have the training to read and write, you couldn't read this. EDUCATION is mandatory, be it homeschool or public or private, it is mandatory.

The inability to do something is not the same as your right to do something being denied. The government could not deny my right to say my piece about what you are saying simply because I never got an education. I would still be allowed to do it.

next comes the 15th amendment to the constitution, whereby The Voting Rights Act of 1965, signed into law by President Lyndon B. Johnson, aimed to overcome legal barriers at the state and local levels that prevented African Americans from exercising their right to vote as guaranteed under the 15th Amendment to the U.S. Constitution. <~~here, there is no mandatory training, yet societally speaking, those who vote have more impact on us as a whole, than any other populace in America. shouldn't some sort of mandatory training in civics/economics and American History be taught to REGISTERED voters? yes/no?

No.

in my opinion, if you answer NO, we are doomed as a republic/democracy. cultural influences will change us in unpredicted directions, look at Europe.

Yes, we are doomed as a republic.

But the hard fact is, many people educated in civics, economics, and history vote wrong. Your requirement will not fix that.

now comes the topic of disapproval from many, mandatory training for gun ownership. before we go down that road, consider the words in the second amendment, "...a well regulated militia..." what does that mean? Word Origin and History for regulate Expand v. early 15c., "adjust by rule, control," from Late Latin regulatus, past participle of regulare "to control by rule, direct," from Latin regula "rule" (see regular ). Meaning "to govern by restriction" is from 1620s. Related: Regulated ; regulating.

The idea that a requirement to be in a regulated militia in order to own a gun was dismissed long ago. You never noticed?

According to our 2nd amendment of the constitution of the United States of America "an amendment to the U.S. Constitution, ratified in 1791 as part of the Bill of Rights, guaranteeing the right to keep and bear arms as necessary to maintain a state militia." The state militia at the time was the citizenry. Citizens who knew how to use guns because of their state regulation, an amendment to the U.S. Constitution, ratified in 1791 as part of the Bill of Rights, guaranteeing the right to keep and bear arms as necessary to maintain a state militia.

"A well-regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state" is a reason for the 2nd Amendment, not the only reason. If it were the only reason, I suppose it would make sense for the State to dole out the arms to the militia when training or securing the free state, and otherwise hold on to them when not in use for the one purpose you seem to think we have the right to bear arms for.

think about that for a rational moment.

OK. If your argument is to hold water, that there is a training requirement to own a gun, based on your reading of the 2nd Amendment, then you also need to include the militia requirement. Simply showing up to mandatory NRA or other training would not be sufficient. Anyone who wanted to own a gun would be required to participate in militia training.

Massad Ayoob and I had this conversation last august and when i told him LEO'S had to qualify on their firearms once per year, mandatorily! he simply said, "good point." and we moved on. matter of fact, this exchange come from : (ahem) I would like to preface this reply by saying I haven’t read all the responses, but after sending this post for review, will begin my evening/late nite reading and absorb the opinions set fourth.

LEOs do not have a right to that job. They need to be hired, trained, and perform to certain standards. Pretty much just like any other job.

If a LEO did not want to continue to qualify on his firearm once a year, he would not lose the right to have a firearm, he would lose his job. If what you are saying about the qualifying requirement is true.

Mandatory training is my vote, hands down. Many instructors I know might donate time, some may not, but ultimately it is up to the gun owner to seek out the training and ASK if the instructor has a HARDSHIP clause. Then again, those who have shame may not seek the instruction because they think it a futile and embarrassing endeavor. And thats the shame.

There is no mandatory training requirement to speak, practice religion, or to be tried by your peers. You have the right to privacy, to petition your government, to associate with whomever you please, to get married, all of that, without one iota of training.

You are singling out self-defense as the one right that requires mandatory training, on a forum that is dedicated to the right to keep and bear arms.

woodstock · Jan 17, 2018

rob-cubed said:
I'm not 100% sure what you are advocating for after reading the first post, and the most recent.

Wouldn't it be great if every gun owner was RESPONSIBLE and WELL TRAINED? Sure. Should we advocate for mandatory training to own a gun? Hell no.

Westboro Baptist Church is protected by 1A, and they are quite literate. I may secretly wish they all die of AIDs--but 1A protects their opinions, even if I disagree with them.

I am against any limitations to a right. The more "reasonably" we erode them, the less free we are. That's why there are laws against shooting people you simply disagree with.

Training of people who police the streets with the arms they carry is different. That's on the job training. I don't pull people over who may be carrying drugs or just carrying. But as a private citizen, I should not be required to jump through hoops to secure a protected right.

i think you are missing my point, which is, if someone is untrained in the ownership and use of a firearm, and say for example "sweeps" my daughter or son due to the inherent ignorance of said gun handling skills due to lack of training, were and who do i direct my anger?

iH8DemLibz · Jan 17, 2018

clandestine · Jan 17, 2018

Woodstock,

Why not associate your Name or Training Company's Name to your opinion?

Scared?

protegeV · Jan 17, 2018

Sweet baby Jesus

iH8DemLibz · Jan 17, 2018

woodstock said:
i think you are missing my point, which is, if someone is untrained in the ownership and use of a firearm, and say for example "sweeps" my daughter or son due to the inherent ignorance of said gun handling skills due to lack of training, were and who do i direct my anger?

Approach the individual and politely explain what happened and why it's dangerous. A reasonable person would listen and probably understand.

Works at Elk Neck and most other ranges.

Alea Jacta Est · Jan 17, 2018

protegeV said:
Sweet baby Jesus

...could use some popcorn about now.

rseymorejr · Jan 17, 2018

woodstock said:
i would be in favor of mandatory voting education for new citizens.

Why just new citizens?
Some of the dumbest people I know are natural born American citizens.

thomfantomas · Jan 17, 2018

Nnztg8r said:
...could use some popcorn about now.

woodstock · Jan 17, 2018

mterry said:
No.

The inability to do something is not the same as your right to do something being denied. The government could not deny my right to say my piece about what you are saying simply because I never got an education. I would still be allowed to do it.

No.

Yes, we are doomed as a republic.

But the hard fact is, many people educated in civics, economics, and history vote wrong. Your requirement will not fix that.

The idea that a requirement to be in a regulated militia in order to own a gun was dismissed long ago. You never noticed?

"A well-regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state" is a reason for the 2nd Amendment, not the only reason. If it were the only reason, I suppose it would make sense for the State to dole out the arms to the militia when training or securing the free state, and otherwise hold on to them when not in use for the one purpose you seem to think we have the right to bear arms for.

OK. If your argument is to hold water, that there is a training requirement to own a gun, based on your reading of the 2nd Amendment, then you also need to include the militia requirement. Simply showing up to mandatory NRA or other training would not be sufficient. Anyone who wanted to own a gun would be required to participate in militia training.

LEOs do not have a right to that job. They need to be hired, trained, and perform to certain standards. Pretty much just like any other job.

If a LEO did not want to continue to qualify on his firearm once a year, he would not lose the right to have a firearm, he would lose his job. If what you are saying about the qualifying requirement is true.

There is no mandatory training requirement to speak, practice religion, or to be tried by your peers. You have the right to privacy, to petition your government, to associate with whomever you please, to get married, all of that, without one iota of training.

You are singling out self-defense as the one right that requires mandatory training, on a forum that is dedicated to the right to keep and bear arms.[/QUOT

"You are singling out self-defense as the one right that requires mandatory training, on a forum that is dedicated to the right to keep and bear arms.[/QUOT" no sir. singling out firearms enthusiasts. i am dedicated to the right to bear arms.

BUFF7MM · Jan 17, 2018

Well I figure this thread will either get nuked or go down in history as one of the epic threads of all time, now please save me some popcorn, I’ve got to go poop and don’t want to miss this getting ready to be a train wreck of a thread.

protegeV · Jan 17, 2018

Nnztg8r said:
...could use some popcorn about now.

I ran out. Time for a refill.

woodstock · Jan 17, 2018

rseymorejr said:
Why just new citizens?
Some of the dumbest people I know are natural born American citizens.

now thats another issue.

iH8DemLibz · Jan 17, 2018

thomfantomas said:

Dude brought some for the whole gang.

Mr. Ed · Jan 17, 2018

Woody said:
Emotive stories used to make a point always concern me...

A big no to mandatory training. A big yes to training. ... snip...

Agreed!

Many of us were lucky enough to grow up in families where we were taught respect for, and safe use of firearms. Others might have been in the scouts or summer camps where firearms were included. Many of us also choose to further our education and training to higher levels as we get older. Society is changing, and what used to be the norm is often now the exception. Heck, we had a rifle team in my high school in Arlington VA, and we routinely carried our rifles slung over our shoulders and walked to school, storing our rifles in hall lockers, until we convened after school under the cafeteria to practice. Nobody gave it a second thought, and nobody ever once misbehaved or abused the system. Sure can't imagine that happening today.

Like you (referring to the OP), I am an NRA and MSP certified instructor, and I agree that proper training is beneficial. But making it mandatory (if that is what you might be suggesting) is probably where we part ways.

Activities like driving a car or motorcycle require certification to exercise that privilege, but firearms ownership and use is a right that is enumerated in the Bill of Rights. As such, it cannot be constitutionally limited or infringed upon.

Do I wish more folks were trained? Sure. Do I teach folks for free? Of course. Most of us do, in one form or another. But establishing a requirement for training opens a door to the slippery slope of regulation. And just having training doesn't mean that a person will exercise good judgement.

clandestine · Jan 17, 2018

Buff7mm said:
Well I figure this thread will either get nuked or go down in history as one of the epic threads of all time, now please save me some popcorn, I’ve got to go poop and don’t want to miss this getting ready to be a train wreck of a thread.

That there is a rookie move. You take the computer or phone to the pooper so you don't miss stuff.

BUFF7MM · Jan 17, 2018

clandestine said:
That there is a rookie move. You take the computer or phone to the pooper so you don't miss stuff.

I would but I’m charging and can’t plug in.

I'm in favor of mandatory training to own a gun

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