In response to MSI and your Facebook post from last night

Zzzzz_man said:

We're our own worst enemies. We really are. While the opposition organizes and galvanizes voters, we sit-back, piss/moan, point the finger at each other and advocate for armed resistance. WTF. No wonder the other side is winning.

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Thank you.

Bertfish said:

All steps should be taken to reasonably avoid armed revolt. Rarely do revolutions end up with completely positive results. Many times you end up with extremists in power.

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The good thing is, none of us are extremists. We're just fighting and trying to hold on to the fundamental ideas that our republic was fought for. We're trying to hold on to the memory of the people that died fighting for the independence of the United States. No infringements. The extremists are the ones trying to change all this. The ones that can't believe that we've gotten this far living with the values we were founded on. The ones that always want to compare our country to other countries. We aren't other countries. We got here with dedication. If they like other countries, they can move there.

Don't forget, we're the good guys here. We're the people upholding the beliefs and values this country was founded on. You have nothing to be ashamed of.

SCV/SAR Patriot said:

Sir, I’ve seen your posts and think we agree. Just felt compelled to comment as I’m completely disgusted in the state of this state and not particularly happy with the direction of our country and what it has become.

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Agreed!

I know with certainty that we are on the same page. My posts likely didn't convey properly.

Imho what you are seeing Maryland doing to our 2A rights is unconstitutional. I think everyone on this forum believes that also. OUR forefathers fought and many died to establish the form of government we have today so we wouldn't have to fight a tyrannical government.

The scotus is our final decision maker if this is unconstitutional or not. My feelings is that they are letting these states paint themselves into a corner where it will be impossible for them to ignore the blatant abuses. Then they will have to take action and force them to reinstate our God given rights thus avoiding the showdown that some have spoke of. If not May God have mercy on our souls and guide us on the correct course of action.

My game is the long one. For Folks that have read some of the new laws that they want to pass and put in effect the repercussions would be staggering and I believe unconstitutional. For now we follow the course set by our forefathers and use the system they put in place in their infinite wisdom.

I speak for myself only.

Overboost44 said:

Thank you.

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You're welcome. Had to be said.

Here's what I don't get: we have some very smart folks on MDS who have been here for quite awhile. If they haven't been able to come up with an effective counter-strategy for this gun-grabbing BS in MD by now, our best and only hope is to challenge the legality and constitutionality of it in the Courts. It would seem that MSI and other groups, like them, are our best hope to accomplish our common goals to repeal and reverse them.

I’m trying to picture the outcome of going to Annapolis, forcefully dragging out the most egregious 2A violators. OP, explain the next step and follow up with how it all works out in our favor.

For the sake of conversation:

welder516 said:

Wish we as citizens could put in escrow all our tax money's until we get the attention of our local politicians . File a class action suit .

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For the sake of conversation, what would happen if you were to organize a bank run. Make them listen to your words.

fabsroman said:

50,000 demonstrators in Annapolis would have the politicians crapping in their pants.

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Decoy said:

They wouldn't even bat an eye. I was there in 2013, they were laughing at us.

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Imagine if your forefathers held signs and told the British to F-off

welder516 said:

I often wonder why we see so many fighting age men leave other countries and come to the US . I say to myself why don't they stay and fight in the place they were born or raised . Maybe it is easier to flee the country and now maybe it is easier to flee this state like many have done from here .

If there ever is a need I will not flee , not just yet . I feel like leaving this horrible state . but it won't happen for a whole host of reasons , so I guess I will have to fight .

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This is a very interesting perspective that I have never thought about before.


This>>>
is the best counter

SCV/SAR Patriot said:

Many of my ancestors fought in the Revolutionary War and I will uphold that honor as well. I would rather fight it in my time than burden my children or grandchildren with it. For those of you who don’t like it or understand so be it.

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To this>>>

pilot25 said:

What happened at the Oregon standoff? Bunch of militants took a stand. Very admirable.

What was the result? The two ranchers slated to go to jail still went to jail and a good man was killed in the process.

I'm not stating if anyone was in the right or wrong. I think it was huge government overreach. However, the end result of children living without their father was not worth it and the needle moved exactly zero. ZERO. Then through the rational process Trump was elected and the ranchers were pardoned. Voting moved the needle. Not protests or signs or harassing elected officials. Voting. Novel idea.

You guys are off your rocker if you think the average American is going to think this is normal behavior and be in your corner. It's amazing people don't want to vote in local elections but want to go 1776 militant and give the leftists a chance to say, "See told you. Bat crap crazy gun owners."

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The fact that the bundy ranch happened in the first place shows the overreach of power. They happened to be the first that opposed in fairly small numbers in a manner that a revolution would not be fought and they did win that without a shot even being fired.
(what I mean) A revolution would not be fought with 1 side standing on one side and the other side standing on another side.
IMO, it was criminal to charge them, the gov officals should have charges filed against them for what they did to provoke the incident.
Imagine if an American were kidnapped and US military forces were sent in to free the kidnapped.
The only difference is the scale
Imagine if a persons property is kidnapped and local forces were sent in to free the kidnapped
The only difference is the scale of what happened. Any country would have been in the right if they did the same.
(analogy could be better, but you get the general idea)
They did nothing any different than a country would, just on a smaller scale.

Men with guns sent by countries oppose one another all the time, the do this because holding sings won't force the other side to give into their demands.

Right now, they are demanding your weapons, you are demanding to keep them.

Zzzzz_man said:

We're our own worst enemies. We really are. While the opposition organizes and galvanizes voters, we sit-back, piss/moan, point the finger at each other and advocate for armed resistance. WTF. No wonder the other side is winning.

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How do you beat them? donate money, hold signs, rally, vote? This has all been done before has it not? What will be different this time?

for how many years staight have they taken and taken and taken. When was the last time in MD where they erased laws on the books that infringed? It just doesn't happen. No amount of votes will change that.
We are our own worst enemy. We play the game by their rules and by their terms an wonder why we keep losing.
Every new law that passes is a compromise. After enough compromises they get what they want. Look at cali, ny, nj

Bikebreath said:

I’m trying to picture the outcome of going to Annapolis, forcefully dragging out the most egregious 2A violators. OP, explain the next step and follow up with how it all works out in our favor.

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For the sake of conversation:
It depends.
If you have 50 people do it, bad day.
If you have 50,000 people do it, you have change.
I could be wrong, but I thought that saying "more patriots than handcuffs" was a reference to something like what you pointed out?


Every single time a new law comes around there is a compromise. Every compromise takes more. The laws never stop. It's what they make.

I joined this forum not to long ago only because I saw the speed that this stuff was coming down the pipe, but I had no idea it would be this fast. I never thought that it cali, ny, nj would have allowed things to change to the extent that they have. What makes us think we are so much different than them? That is where we are headed. I'm sure they voted and payed money and protested etc.... The end result is a politician with an agenda is going to do what a politician with an agenda is going to do. My biggest beef is that they do not represent us, nor follow the constitution that they have taken an oath.

I'm gong to pass all this knowledge about how to change things onto my kids so that they can donate money to fight in courts to at the scotus and hopefully be able to own my guns without being felons upon ownership before they die so they can pass them to their children

...a final thought...2 to be more specific.

1...How could our forefathers voted, appealed to or protested differently to get the message to the British to leave them alone?

2...would Marylanders allow the rules of NY and CA to be applied to us here? Would the citizens allow it?

All this being said, I'm not advocating a fight, I'm just saying that the signs, emails and protests that have occurred for X number of years in the past have not worked or we would not be at this point, so what is going to be done differently now when it's all on the line?

I don't have the answers, but definitely repeating the same actions and expecting a different result is insanity. What will be different now than in 2013?

What I think is more letters, calls and donations than before. Let's beat them at their game.

I know what both the Americans and the Israelis did to get the British to leave them alone. It's how both countries gained their independence and freedom! Study the history of how Jews hid weapons from the British during the British Mandate. It's one of the first things I learned while serving in the IDF. Gun slicks were everywhere.

https://www.thedailybeast.com/israel-had-a-secret-underground-bullet-factory

https://www.haaretz.com/1.5113711

Only tyrants disarm their populace!

randomuser said:

What will be different this time?

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Gorsuch and Kavanaugh, that's what.

My biggest beef is that they do not represent us

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Sure they do. The majority of us (meaning, the citizens of Maryland) are solidly behind wrecking your 2A rights. Really. It's that simple. The creatures in the Maryland General Assembly actually DO represent the state. The state's culture on this topic is the problem, and the only cure is a challenge to the constitutionality of how that problem manifests itself in law.

How could our forefathers voted, appealed to or protested differently to get the message to the British to leave them alone?

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Our colonial ancestors WERE "the British." Those on this side of the Atlantic didn't live in a society structured in a way that allowed them to vote or adequately protest, or hold the crown's policies and actions up against a government charter that forbid such abuses. So those men MADE a country where we can speak and petition the courts. And indeed here we are speaking and there are our wonderful advocates in groups like MSI, doing everything they can to get the right cases in front of the right judges at the right time. Because our forefathers fought and died to make sure that our subsequent fights would instead involve just votes and, if needed, people wearing ties making arguments in front of people wearing robes, while holding up a copy of our Constitution.

so what is going to be done differently now when it's all on the line?

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Hold your nose over his tone, his foibles, his mis-steps, and do every POSSIBLE thing to make sure that Trump wins instead of the Dem candidate in 2020, so he can continue to re-install some rational, constitutionalist judges throughout the federal courts. Therein is the only path. We barely dodged a fatal, republic-ending bullet when Hillary Clinton talked her way out of becoming president. It was nearly miraculous. We need a whole lot of lazy non-voting people to get off their asses in 2020 and keep that miracle alive.

What I think is more letters, calls and donations than before.

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Especially the donations part. We all stock up on ammo because we know it just feels right. The lawyers doing their best on our behalf need us to stock them up with cash. It's their ammo in this fight. Our fight.

The constitution is on our side. We need to help good lawyers drag it back out into the sunlight and the public consciousness where it used to be a source of well understood pride and the centerpiece of our culture.

The timeline of events which led to the creation of the IDF and ultimately the State of Israel is listed out here for those interested. During this difficult time it was just a bunch of small militia groups many of which didn't even get along with each other.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_insurgency_in_Mandatory_Palestine

Doctor_M said:

On an aside, there is one thing in this mess that makes me smile. We (the MDS community) are engaging in the EXACT same discussions that our founders engaged in in the 1770s. We are wrestling with the same issues and struggling with the same moral dilemmas. Essentially it comes down to when do we light the fuze? I take some comfort in knowing that these paths have been trodden before by men wiser than we. I hope that God will bless our actions and decisions. While I pray that we can make them listen to our words, it may come down to our actions. As the motto of our state says, "Fatti maschii, parole femine". We may need both.

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While people are (and we’re) sick of taxes, the government overreach, it was firearm confiscation that actually led to the first battles in th Revolution. Lexington and Concord.

Zzzzz_man said:

You're welcome. Had to be said.

Here's what I don't get: we have some very smart folks on MDS who have been here for quite awhile. If they haven't been able to come up with an effective counter-strategy for this gun-grabbing BS in MD by now, our best and only hope is to challenge the legality and constitutionality of it in the Courts. It would seem that MSI and other groups, like them, are our best hope to accomplish our common goals to repeal and reverse them.

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It’s pretty simple, really. Our legislators have the full support of their constituents. They get elected with a huge majority in many cases, and often run unopposed. Our legislators are overwhelmingly liberal Democrats in very safe districts.


While it would be awesome if we could simply raise more money and kick them out, it’s not going to happen. We can try to make their bills less painful by writing, e-mailing, and even better...showing up. We can point out the absurdities of their bills and get some things removed. Then we sue......

It takes money to sue. Find an organization that you think will be most likely to finance/support lawsuits against Maryland specifically and throw them some money....

Occam said:

The constitution is on our side. We need to help good lawyers drag it back out into the sunlight and the public consciousness where it used to be a source of well understood pride and the centerpiece of our culture.

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The fact that the constitution is on our side and it has gotten as far as it has is the scariest part of it all. Isn't it in place so that what is happening right now does not happen?

randomuser said:

The fact that the constitution is on our side and it has gotten as far as it has is the scariest part of it all. Isn't it in place so that what is happening right now does not happen?

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Yes, and we're trying to undo the damage caused by a generation of lefty judges and justices who deliberately tried to break one of the constitution's key features. It took time to make a mess, and it's taking time (and money) to fix it.

IDFInfantry said:

During this difficult time it was just a bunch of small militia groups many of which didn't even get along with each other.

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Sounds familiar, somehow.

Bob A said:

Sounds familiar, somehow.

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I’m not a tough guy by any measure, but I’m with muleskinner here.

FWIW, I have some experience in this area, and i encourage all of you to, as I do, view these unconstitutional infringements as a farce. I equally encourage all of you to view any judicial opinion that upholds such infringements as nonsense. That is what they are. Obama judges invent law on a daily basis; I don’t give a flying f**k what Chief Justice Roberts has to say on that point. Obama appointed activists who invent law based not on real world experience but incubation on college campuses.

If the libs want to come for 2A, they should do so honestly and try to repeal it. Violating the right with the rubber stamp approval of Obama judges is bs, and we all know it

I would judge no man who shot at govt to preserve his rights, but I would be far from the first to do it. I think that sums up the current situation succinctly.

Big problem is the other side is lawless and have show us that with lots of their radical groups , and there is more of them then us . We have families , jobs and believe for the most part rule of law . But when these people are agreeing and high five'ing the killing of full term babies they lose me .

There are embedded judges , and Scotus judges we have no chance of turning to our side .
I may or may not comply with un-lawful request , I too am not a brave person or some sort of rebel but I have had enough (we shall wait and see) .

I think lots of this is because of T45 and him winning , they are so pissed off they are coming after us as conservatives . Anything Trump needs to go in their mind , even us .

teratos said:

While people are (and we’re) sick of taxes, the government overreach, it was firearm confiscation that actually led to the first battles in th Revolution. Lexington and Concord.



It’s pretty simple, really. Our legislators have the full support of their constituents. They get elected with a huge majority in many cases, and often run unopposed. Our legislators are overwhelmingly liberal Democrats in very safe districts.


While it would be awesome if we could simply raise more money and kick them out, it’s not going to happen. We can try to make their bills less painful by writing, e-mailing, and even better...showing up. We can point out the absurdities of their bills and get some things removed. Then we sue......

It takes money to sue. Find an organization that you think will be most likely to finance/support lawsuits against Maryland specifically and throw them some money....

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Exactly what I intend to do. This war will be won or lost by lawyers and not by martyrs going down in a blaze of glory.

If they have no plans to comply, great. It's probably best they keep their big yappers shut about it. If they intend to sacrifice themselves as 2A martyrs, what's stopping them? Go do it. I just hope they don't expect the rest of us with families and people who depend upon us to join them in either jail or the funeral home.

I know that by posting this, I will change no one's mind as it is evident that everyone is as set as those in Annapolis who have already decided how they will vote based on their own agenda or from party leadership's commands. However, it is my opinion that he minds that need to be changed are the average Maryland citizen.

The left are, if nothing else, political opportunists who would use any violence to further their stranglehold, and events sway the attitudes of the populace. The St. Valentines Day Massacre and the attempted assassination of FDR gave us the NFA and the assassination of JFK gave us the GCA and Safe Streets Act of 1968. The GCA was attempted to be enacted by two separate bills in 1963, but there was too much opposition - until a socialist with a mail order rifle took the life of the President. And three mass shootings in 1989, 1991 and 1993 gave us the Clinton era AWB. Behind all of them were propaganda campaigns to sweep public opinion (which is why the Brady Bill took so many years).

Violence at this point, serves their needs - not ours. We need to be more proactive in getting the message out. We need to be more aggressive in education. And while they have 24/7 access to the media and can put their message on every news broadcasts from early morning shows, 4, 5, 6 and 7pm and the 11pm show - our legislators need to get in front of a camera more often and speak knowledgeably about the issues. It is the massive gatherings in Annapolis that have received a little media attention in the previous years and we need to keep that up; not give the leftist bastards exactly what they want.