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  • jfox

    Member
    Mar 27, 2012
    97
    They would not even process my application. I wanted to loose my money and they wouldn't take it. They will keep their good rating for approvals if they won't process the application. I feel that self defense is good and substantial so they should process the application.

    Feel free to check the attachment. It pissed me off for sure.

    Now I just re-read the letter. Funny how state is choosing to make-up law as they go. "You have two options"...

    I see it differently. You have more than two options. You can call them on it, send back in Certified Mail, Return Receipt Requested, along with a short letter saying simply; "In accordance with my rights, and the state requirement to grant or deny the application in accordance with COMAR xxx, please continue to process my application as originally received on XXX Date".
     

    esqappellate

    President, MSI
    Feb 12, 2012
    7,407
    Now I just re-read the letter. Funny how state is choosing to make-up law as they go. "You have two options"...

    I see it differently. You have more than two options. You can call them on it, send back in Certified Mail, Return Receipt Requested, along with a short letter saying simply; "In accordance with my rights, and the state requirement to grant or deny the application in accordance with COMAR xxx, please continue to process my application as originally received on XXX Date".

    Or you can treat it as a denial and take it directly to the Board. When and if they do this to my application, that is I what I plan to do. And I'll request a hearing and cross examine witnesses.
     

    Inigoes

    Head'n for the hills
    MDS Supporter
    Dec 21, 2008
    49,367
    SoMD / West PA
    esqappellate said:
    Or you can treat it as a denial and take it directly to the Board. When and if they do this to my application, that I what I plan to do. And I'll request a hearing and cross examine witnesses.

    Recorded hearing of course
     

    c33m0n3y

    Active Member
    Mar 14, 2010
    622
    Howard County
    So I submitted on March 6th in person and they cashed my check on March 9th. I haven't heard a thing either, so MSP has less than 60 days to respond or I can request a hearing. For the "reason" I wrote in "N/A" and attached Judge Legg's ruling. Sounds like "The Board" is going to be busy in June with hearings.
     

    OEH

    Active Member
    Nov 18, 2010
    353
    29B
    If I got one of these I'd send it back along with a bill for the postage needed to send it back to Pikesville the second time.
     

    csanc123

    Ultimate Member
    Aug 26, 2009
    4,155
    Montgomery County
    Where did they get the quote "insufficiently tailored....."

    Was that a direct quote from the Judge or was that an interpretation of the Judge's rationale for the decision?

    MSP should have said Judge Legg "found G/S unconstitutional"...no?
     

    CypherPunk

    Opinions Are My Own
    Apr 6, 2012
    3,907
    Or you can treat it as a denial and take it directly to the Board. When and if they do this to my application, that is I what I plan to do. And I'll request a hearing and cross examine witnesses.

    Imagine if we *all* requested hearings?
     

    jfox

    Member
    Mar 27, 2012
    97
    And another re-read...first line so obvious:

    Judge Legg decisions states that G&S was "insufficiently tailored" to meet the states interest...

    So what the state wants to do, quite simply...is "tailor it more". i.e....they want to be more specific. However, they are ignoring alot of what the Judge says. I still have my previous strategy question (regarding if it is better or not for us to get the stay), but am thinking that this letter does actually help our case, even if the state could "legally" do this.
     

    esqappellate

    President, MSI
    Feb 12, 2012
    7,407
    So the board clearly can just rubber-stamp the decision of MSP, without any right of the applicant or counsel to present a case before the board. Further, they get to take up to 90 days to choose between their (2) favorite rubber stamps:

    1) "DENIED"
    2) "Not Approved"

    But, since they then have to give their reasoning in writing, one can then engage counsel to sue the state for violation of rights and I would have thought attorney fees and damages.

    Once I have a final administrative decision, my right to sue becomes ripe....
     

    jfox

    Member
    Mar 27, 2012
    97
    Or you can treat it as a denial and take it directly to the Board. When and if they do this to my application, that is I what I plan to do. And I'll request a hearing and cross examine witnesses.

    I will do the same. However, I don't see in the law where they have to grant you a hearing. It appears they can just do their own review themselves.

    If you can treat this as a denial and not reapply, I would agree...it only makes sense to immediately request your hearing in writing, certified mail, with return receipt. Include a copy of your application and the letter, sent to the permit review board. Keep copies of all...
     

    esqappellate

    President, MSI
    Feb 12, 2012
    7,407
    Where did they get the quote "insufficiently tailored....."

    Was that a direct quote from the Judge or was that an interpretation of the Judge's rationale for the decision?

    MSP should have said Judge Legg "found G/S unconstitutional"...no?

    That is their application of g&s.
     

    esqappellate

    President, MSI
    Feb 12, 2012
    7,407
    So the board clearly can just rubber-stamp the decision of MSP, without any right of the applicant or counsel to present a case before the board. Further, they get to take up to 90 days to choose between their (2) favorite rubber stamps:

    1) "DENIED"
    2) "Not Approved"

    But, since they then have to give their reasoning in writing, one can then engage counsel to sue the state for violation of rights and I would have thought attorney fees and damages.


    they have to do one of two things within 90 days:

    (b) Within 90 days after receiving a request to review a decision of the Secretary, the Board shall:

    (1) review the record developed by the Secretary; or

    (2) conduct a hearing.

    In other words, they must have a hearing within the 90 days but not necessarily a decision within 90 days if they conduct a hearing.
     

    USAFRavenR6

    Active Member
    Apr 7, 2012
    734
    Mur-land
    Hello everyone,

    This is my first post but I have been lurking the boards for the past week when I was told of Judge Leggs decisions to strike down G&S. I have lived in MD for about 6 years now and prior to that I lived in Virginia and Pennsylvania, both of which I actively held a CCW for the states. I participated in last weeks round of sending emails and placing calls but I was too busy with a newborn and a two year old to get on here and post. I submitted my application on the 6th of April, same as the OP, and I also received the same letter with the complete packet in the mail today. The letter stated that I can either A) resubmit with a G&S reason or B) wait until the court case is fully decided. I am pissed over this. I am a Vet of the USAF and would like some guidance on how to proceed with this. Any advise is greatly appriciated. Thank you very much for providing me the resources as well as keeping me up to date on MD CCW news. This board is the first thing that came to mind when I opened the package. I am prepared to fight this, I just need some advice on how to go about conducting myself as well as provide ammo to support our cause. Thank you very much. I am very happy to be here, I just wish it was with the news that my CCW came today.
     

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