Incompetent MSP in transfer

dblas · Dec 19, 2015

sxs said:
If the gun is at the store overnight, it MUST be logged in. Scott had an issue some years back when he had a couple quick fix things taken in for just a day and ATF showed up right then. Of course, any handguns need to wait the requisite 7 days so they are kept overnight. What you state may be true for a long gun where both parties are present....but then you don't have to do an FFL transfer anyway. Any firearm received through the mail is taken possess
ion of.

That is correct, but there is no requirement from the MSP or ATF that a seller leave their firearm at an FFL if they are using the FFL for the transfer/background check, and thus no requirement to log the firearm.

The seller and buyer can use the FFL for the 77R paperwork and then both leave with the seller taking the firearm with him if he wishes. Again, without the need for the FFL to log the firearm into their bound book.

gabe72 · Dec 19, 2015

71Chevelle427 said:
Personally, I don't bother with any business, here or anywhere else, that won't give me a price until I am there...

"There" in those cases is somewhere else.

There's nothing wrong with an IP stating that MSRP is $_____ ,but come to the store for an even better price. Like protegeV said, I would want the extra business, not seem to go out of my way to steer them somewhere else....there's a few IP'S here that do exactly that. JMO...

Thats almost like passing a bill to see what is in it,if you think i am going to drive an hour or more just to see a price you lost any sale from me

beretta_maven · Dec 20, 2015

I have done 20+ MSP transfers over the past three years, utilizing various MSP barracks, including Leonardtown (multiple), Prince Frederick (multiple), La Plata (multiple), College Park, and Forestville. My experiences with the MSP have been all over the map. I've probably done ten transfers at the Leonardtown barracks and have never gotten the same trooper twice - mostly good experiences there but did have one idiot who not only was incompetent, but had an attitude. When a recent transfer went bad in College Park (nice trooper forgot to put the gun serial number on the form), I went to the Forestville barracks to have the trooper verify the serial number, put it on the form and re-fax the paperwork. That little a-hole didn't want to come out from behind his desk and told me if I didn't like it that I could leave and go somewhere else. Ended up driving all the way back to Leonardtown, where I got very good service, and with a smile.

If you only do a couple of transfers in your life, all of your experiences may be good, or bad, or split - it's a crap shoot. But if you do a lot of transfers, I guarantee you will eventually see a good share of incompetency and/or attitude behind the counter (some cops forget that they are public servants). And yes, if those troopers sit behind that desk (it is a rotation), they certainly need to know how to do a firearms transfer - period.

Oh, and All Pawn in White Plains do transfers for $35. Done a couple of transfers there (very good folks), but it is just a little too far from me to use regularly.

Minuteman · Dec 20, 2015

trickg said:
I've done a couple of transfers directly through the MSP - one in Bel Air and one in Glen Burnie/Severn. (The one off of Airport loop) The officers at those locations knew the drill - it was smooth and easy both times.

Ditto for me, but different barracks.

Minuteman · Dec 20, 2015

beretta_maven said:
I have done 20+ MSP transfers over the past three years, utilizing various MSP barracks, including Leonardtown (multiple), Prince Frederick (multiple), La Plata (multiple), College Park, and Forestville. My experiences with the MSP have been all over the map. I've probably done ten transfers at the Leonardtown barracks and have never gotten the same trooper twice - mostly good experiences there but did have one idiot who not only was incompetent, but had an attitude. When a recent transfer went bad in College Park (nice trooper forgot to put the gun serial number on the form), I went to the Forestville barracks to have the trooper verify the serial number, put it on the form and re-fax the paperwork. That little a-hole didn't want to come out from behind his desk and told me if I didn't like it that I could leave and go somewhere else. Ended up driving all the way back to Leonardtown, where I got very good service, and with a smile.

If you only do a couple of transfers in your life, all of your experiences may be good, or bad, or split - it's a crap shoot. But if you do a lot of transfers, I guarantee you will eventually see a good share of incompetency and/or attitude behind the counter (some cops forget that they are public servants). And yes, if those troopers sit behind that desk (it is a rotation), they certainly need to know how to do a firearms transfer - period.

Oh, and All Pawn in White Plains do transfers for $35. Done a couple of transfers there (very good folks), but it is just a little too far from me to use regularly.

Thanks for this thorough discussion. I'll recommend using an FFL for a while now.

Minuteman · Dec 20, 2015

dblas said:
That is correct, but there is no requirement from the MSP or ATF that a seller leave their firearm at an FFL if they are using the FFL for the transfer/background check, and thus no requirement to log the firearm.

The seller and buyer can use the FFL for the 77R paperwork and then both leave with the seller taking the firearm with him if he wishes. Again, without the need for the FFL to log the firearm into their bound book.

Yes this. And yes I've done it this way too. Recommended, and makes it easer on your FFL.

RoadDawg · Dec 20, 2015

beretta_maven said:
I have done 20+ MSP transfers over the past three years, utilizing various MSP barracks, including Leonardtown (multiple), Prince Frederick (multiple), La Plata (multiple), College Park, and Forestville. My experiences with the MSP have been all over the map. I've probably done ten transfers at the Leonardtown barracks and have never gotten the same trooper twice - mostly good experiences there but did have one idiot who not only was incompetent, but had an attitude. When a recent transfer went bad in College Park (nice trooper forgot to put the gun serial number on the form), I went to the Forestville barracks to have the trooper verify the serial number, put it on the form and re-fax the paperwork. [1]That little a-hole didn't want to come out from behind his desk and told me if I didn't like it that I could leave and go somewhere else. Ended up driving all the way back to Leonardtown, where I got very good service, and with a smile.

If you only do a couple of transfers in your life, all of your experiences may be good, or bad, or split - it's a crap shoot. But if you do a lot of transfers, I guarantee you will eventually see a good share of incompetency and/or attitude behind the counter ([2]some cops forget that they are public servants). And yes, if those troopers sit behind that desk (it is a rotation), they certainly need to know how to do a firearms transfer - period.

Oh, and All Pawn in White Plains do transfers for $35. Done a couple of transfers there (very good folks), but it is just a little too far from me to use regularly.

1) you should have requested to see the supervisor.

2) some citizens forget that although they can be a "royal" pain ... no other citizen is their "servant".

sxs · Dec 21, 2015

Minuteman said:
Ditto for me, but different barracks.

The Glen Burnie barracks by the Airport has had a good number of us put 'em through the drill. Some done a number of years ago were less than smooth. Some done right after the 2013 FSA were also problems (confusion over C&R exemptions). Last few I have done in Glen Burnie were very smooth. Haven't heard any recent complaints.

beretta_maven · Dec 21, 2015

RoadDawg said:
1) you should have requested to see the supervisor.

2) some citizens forget that although they can be a "royal" pain ... no other citizen is their "servant".

1) I DID request to see the supervisor at the Forestville station, but the a-hole behind the counter claimed he was the only one there, even though another cop came up and interrupted my initial encounter with him. I ended up writing a formal complaint - still waiting on anything to happen with that.

2) Sorry, cops ARE public servants - if you don't like the terminology, too bad, it is correct.

beretta_maven · Dec 21, 2015

Minuteman said:
Thanks for this thorough discussion. I'll recommend using an FFL for a while now.

I agree - I use one of several local FFLs for 95% of my transfers.

protegeV · Dec 21, 2015

beretta_maven said:
I agree - I use one of several local FFLs for 95% of my transfers.

Until I run into an issue or find an FFL who will do a transfer for $10, I'll continue to use MSP.

nb4602 · Dec 21, 2015

I've done about 2 dozen transfers at Kelso Dr and never had a problem other then one Trooper telling us we can swap pistols now . I asked , are you sure ? Did the law change ? He went in the back and came out and restated we need to wait until the paperwork came back . Knowing he was wrong wasn't going to do it any way but though , that's nuts , maybe he's new ??

protegeV · Dec 21, 2015

nb4602 said:
I've done about 2 dozen transfers at Kelso Dr and never had a problem other then one Trooper telling us we can swap pistols now . I asked , are you sure ? Did the law change ? He went in the back and came out and restated we need to wait until the paperwork came back . Knowing he was wrong wasn't going to do it any way but though , that's nuts , maybe he's new ??

He was wrong but that is a pretty epic example of how stupid the waiting period is.
Two people both already own a handgun, but must wait 7 days to trade... :rolleyes:

71Chevelle427 · Dec 21, 2015

protegeV said:
He was wrong but that is a pretty epic example of how stupid the waiting period is.
Two people both already own a handgun, but must wait 7 days to trade...

I know it isn't/wasn't the Trooper's decision to make, but That is pretty darn stupid, isn't it? :lol2:

RoadDawg · Dec 22, 2015

beretta_maven said:
1) I DID request to see the supervisor at the Forestville station, but the a-hole behind the counter claimed he was the only one there, even though another cop came up and interrupted my initial encounter with him. I ended up writing a formal complaint - still waiting on anything to happen with that.

2) Sorry, cops ARE public servants - if you don't like the terminology, too bad, it is correct.

Should Officers bow and curtsy to you as they back away?

A service provider is not your servant.
A Doctor provides medical services... Do you also believe they are your servant?
A Public School Teacher provides a service... Are they your servants?

RoadDawg · Dec 22, 2015

protegeV said:
He was wrong but that is a pretty epic example of how stupid the waiting period is.
Two people both already own a handgun, but must wait 7 days to trade...

71Chevelle427 said:
I know it isn't/wasn't the Trooper's decision to make, but That is pretty darn stupid, isn't it?

No...

It is damned stupid. Those idiots who made up that law know it's stupid. But they get a little quiver every time one of us has to wait.

I walked into a LGS with a Glock 22 in my duty holster... a Glock 27 in my pocket and in full uniform. I STILL had to wait until the paperwork was "not disapproved"... I guess some libtard pants wetter thought I was a risk to public safety if I walked out of the shop that day with THREE guns. :sad20:

Rack&Roll · Dec 22, 2015

It's easy to get Trooper Compliance.

Just say in a low baritone: "I am your father!" when you hand them the $10 Money Order.

Paperwork goes super-smooth after that.

sxs · Dec 22, 2015

protegeV said:
Until I run into an issue or find an FFL who will do a transfer for $10, I'll continue to use MSP.

And that will never happen...or if it does, it will be $10 for the transfer plus $10 for the MSP Fee which is charged regardless of the FFL transfer (the FFLs pay that money to the MSP).

Worst issue I ever had was right after 2013 when I was involved in a C&R transaction involving a C&R Tokarev. The officer (at Glen Burnie) insisted that the gun required an HQL because "it shoots armor piercing ammo". We (the seller and I) merely asked the attending officer to submit the paperwork and let Licensing make the decision. He insisted on making a photocopy of our C&R 03 FFLs to send with the paperwork even though we countered that the 03 FFL wasn't necessary to fulfill the C&R exemption for the HQL. (FYI, both Dave and I had our 03 FFLs handy...and I had already obtained my HQL....but I didn't want to use it....I wanted the police to acknowledge the HQL exemption). I had a previous transaction that I had just caved and used my HQL for similar reasons. The officer on duty ultimately submitted the paperwork and it came back from MSP Licensing/Firearms just fine (Not Disapproved).

Blaster229 · Dec 22, 2015

Rack&Roll said:
It's easy to get Trooper Compliance.

Just say in a low baritone: "I am your father!" when you hand them the $10 Money Order.

Paperwork goes super-smooth after that.

Then storm out of there when finished.

71Chevelle427 · Dec 22, 2015

RoadDawg said:
Should Officers bow and curtsy to you as they back away?

A service provider is not your servant.
A Doctor provides medical services... Do you also believe they are your servant?
A Public School Teacher provides a service... Are they your servants?

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/public servant

I don't agree 100% with either of you

, but here's what wiki says:

Public services are seen as so important that for moral reasons their universal provision should be guaranteed. They may be associated with fundamental human rights (such as the right to water). The Volunteer Fire Dept. and Ambulance Corps. are institutions with the mission of servicing the community. A service is helping others with a specific need or want. Here, service ranges from a doctor curing an illness, to a repair person, to a food pantry.

In modern developed countries, the term "public services" (or "services of general interest") often includes:

Electricity
Education
Emergency services
Environmental protection
Fire service
Gas
Health care
Law enforcement
Military
Postal service
Public broadcasting
Public library
Public security
Public transportation
Public housing
Social services
Telecommunications
Town planning
Waste management
Water supply network

Incompetent MSP in transfer

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