Gun-Show Customers’ License Plates Come Under Scrutiny

TapRackBang · Oct 4, 2016

mpdc4511 said:
So it's not called in like one would imagine. It doesn't show the operating officer any info other then a plate number......which is public anyway. It really only gets called in if the plate is on the hot list. Examples of the hot list are Amber list, felony vehicles, illegal immigrants, stuff like that depending on settings. If it hits then that plate is called in to check if the status is valid.

The plate number, time, and location is not recorded if it's not on the "hotlist"? I'm OK with that.
But I'd be pleasantly surprised if that's the case.

Also, and not to be rude, your a little out of date on the PC or RAS as far as running a plate. None of those is needed and courts have routinely stated running plates at random is not a 4A violation.

Checking against a "hotlist" without recording number, date, and location may not be a 4A violation. But recording that information would be a 4A violation, regardless of what the courts say. Courts have also said Maryland can ban the AR-15. Not always right, are they? :innocent0

Nosce Hostem · Oct 4, 2016

mpdc4511 said:
That's also not true. Ours is 90 days and the only people who can use the data is our LEOs. See post 34......the private industry with this technology should scare you.

I could be in the minority. But I am FAR less scared of a marketing company selling my info to Home Depot to let them know I drive by their Industry Lane location x amount of times a day than I am of the govt knowing when and where I am and what I'm attending.

Last I checked some private company hasn't been the one systematically curtailing my rights as a citizen and going out of their way to label my interests in firearms as dangerous. And to assume that just because Uncle LEO has a policy now that says they can only hold the info for a certain amount of time, doesn't mean that policies can't be altered. Also, whose to stop Uncle Sam from asking for the info to store in their databases. Can't see any agency in MD fighting that request.

StantonCree · Oct 4, 2016

TapRackBang said:
The plate number, time, and location is not recorded if it's not on the "hotlist"? I'm OK with that.
But I'd be pleasantly surprised if that's the case.

Checking against a "hotlist" without recording number, date, and location may not be a 4A violation. But recording that information would be a 4A violation, regardless of what the courts say. Courts have also said Maryland can ban the AR-15. Not always right, are they?

No as I said it is recorded but only for a pre determined amount of time. None of your personal info shows up on a computer screen though unless it's actually "called in". For DC we dump the info after 90 days.

As far as the second statement you can think or say what you want I'm just trying to educate you on the ACTUAL law. No PC/RAS needed to run a plate.

j_h_smith · Oct 4, 2016

mpdc4511 said:
No as I said it is recorded but only for a pre determined amount of time. None of your personal info shows up on a computer screen though unless it's actually "called in". For DC we dump the info after 90 days.

As far as the second statement you can think or say what you want I'm just trying to educate you on the ACTUAL law. No PC/RAS needed to run a plate.

Not trying to start an argument, but if the system doesn't hit on that license plate, why hold it at all? The idea is to find criminals, no insurance, amber alert vehicles, etc. If the system says that your plate does not meet these predefined conditions, why store the plate number and GPS location at all?

TapRackBang · Oct 4, 2016

Holding the data on plates of law-abiding citizens that don't "hit" is absolutely a 4A violation.
There is no legitimate reason to keep that data. It's wrong.

Independence · Oct 4, 2016

j_h_smith said:
Not trying to start an argument, but if the system doesn't hit on that license plate, why hold it at all? The idea is to find criminals, no insurance, amber alert vehicles, etc. If the system says that your plate does not meet these predefined conditions, why store the plate number and GPS location at all?

Because you're not a criminal, yet. They retain the info in case you become one.

j_h_smith · Oct 4, 2016

Independence said:
Because you're not a criminal, yet. They retain the info in case you become one.

Oh, okay. I get it now. Thanks for the explanation. Makes perfect sense to me.

Nosce Hostem · Oct 4, 2016

j_h_smith said:
Not trying to start an argument, but if the system doesn't hit on that license plate, why hold it at all? The idea is to find criminals, no insurance, amber alert vehicles, etc. If the system says that your plate does not meet these predefined conditions, why store the plate number and GPS location at all?

^Ding ding ding...

To say that the collection is innocent is either extremely naive at best or purposely deceiving at worst. No agency would create the ability to store, even short term, this info if in the long run there wasn't a use for it. The long term storage might be impossible as of now, but that info is valuable to agencies otherwise they wouldn't have created a system for it in the first place.

Look I'm not bashing police, in fact I love our average everyday LEOs, have many in my immediate family back home. Problem is the agencies on a whole as an entity are the arms and fists of the state and can't be fully trusted to do the right thing at all times especially in this state.

StantonCree · Oct 4, 2016

j_h_smith said:
Not trying to start an argument, but if the system doesn't hit on that license plate, why hold it at all? The idea is to find criminals, no insurance, amber alert vehicles, etc. If the system says that your plate does not meet these predefined conditions, why store the plate number and GPS location at all?

Your asking the wrong guy. I will tell you this though it's been a god send for me and what I currently investigate which I won't go into but I will say once I find out about a crime it's sometimes 30 days after its happened and once I develop a suspect I run their cars through and 7 out of 10 times I can see them in the system doing what I'm investigating so when I talk to them I literally have these criminals dead to rights.

jimbobborg · Oct 4, 2016

mpdc4511 said:
Your asking the wrong guy. I will tell you this though it's been a god send for me and what I currently investigate which I won't go into but I will say once I find out about a crime it's sometimes 30 days after its happened and once I develop a suspect I run their cars through and 7 out of 10 times I can see them in the system doing what I'm investigating so when I talk to them I literally have these criminals dead to rights.

More tranny hookers?

Nosce Hostem · Oct 4, 2016

jimbobborg said:
More tranny hookers?

Eddie Murphy approves

Nosce Hostem · Oct 4, 2016

mpdc4511 said:
Your asking the wrong guy. I will tell you this though it's been a god send for me and what I currently investigate which I won't go into but I will say once I find out about a crime it's sometimes 30 days after its happened and once I develop a suspect I run their cars through and 7 out of 10 times I can see them in the system doing what I'm investigating so when I talk to them I literally have these criminals dead to rights.

So this doesn't seem wrong to you at all? I could care less about the criminal who gets screwed, but you just admitted that your agency stores everyday info in their system to be used at a later date in investigations.

So basically you are tracking citizens and keeping their data on file (got it, just short term, 90 days) on the off chance they are, or will become, a criminal. So thus treating every citizen as a criminal BEFORE you have knowledge of any said offense. Great.

If that doesn't seem off to you then there is something very wrong. The ends do not justify the means. Tracking citizens and collecting their data however short term is morally repugnant IMO.

BeoBill · Oct 4, 2016

Nosce Hostem said:
So this doesn't seem wrong to you at all? I could care less about the criminal who gets screwed, but you just admitted that your agency stores everyday info in their system to be used at a later date in investigations.

So basically you are tracking citizens and keeping their data on file (got it, just short term, 90 days) on the off chance they are, or will become, a criminal. So thus treating every citizen as a criminal BEFORE you have knowledge of any said offense. Great.

If that doesn't seem off to you then there is something very wrong. The ends do not justify the means. Tracking citizens and collecting their data however short term is morally repugnant IMO.

It's called "Pre Crime Policing" now, and it's all the rage in PDs all across the country. You can even get DHS grant $$$ for it.

Blaster229 · Oct 4, 2016

Nosce Hostem said:
So this doesn't seem wrong to you at all? I could care less about the criminal who gets screwed, but you just admitted that your agency stores everyday info in their system to be used at a later date in investigations.

So basically you are tracking citizens and keeping their data on file (got it, just short term, 90 days) on the off chance they are, or will become, a criminal. So thus treating every citizen as a criminal BEFORE you have knowledge of any said offense. Great.

If that doesn't seem off to you then there is something very wrong. The ends do not justify the means. Tracking citizens and collecting their data however short term is morally repugnant IMO.

Ummm, to treat someone like a criminal, one would have to be treating someone like a criminal. How is being able to say " The killer's car was last seen in X location 60 days ago", criminal treatment?

Morally repugnant until the killer of one of your family members today, is driving a car with XXXX plate and is recorded in vegas a week later.

Yeah. That would suck to be able to possibly do that.

Blaster229 · Oct 4, 2016

BeoBill said:
It's called "Pre Crime Policing" now, and it's all the rage in PDs all across the country. You can even get DHS grant $$$ for it.

How is it "policing" when no action is ever taken on information that does nothing until it's involved in a crime?

ironpony · Oct 4, 2016

Do private companies collect data or collect and actually run the plates?

dblas · Oct 4, 2016

mesmithwesson said:
What's really weird is to see them on an unmarked Sentra, front and back.

That would be a RePo spotter vehicle, the laptop they use has a database of vehicles listed for repossession.

Nosce Hostem · Oct 4, 2016

Blaster229 said:
Ummm, to treat someone like a criminal, one would have to be treating someone like a criminal. How is being able to say " The killer's car was last seen in X location 60 days ago", criminal treatment?

Morally repugnant until the killer of one of your family members today, is driving a car with XXXX plate and is recorded in vegas a week later.

Yeah. That would suck to be able to possibly do that.

That's your legitment argument? So keeping someone's info who did nothing wrong in a law enforcement database for any amount of time is not treating that person like a criminal? This is just normal run of the mill good old fashioned policing? No one said checking a license plate against a list is bad, holding citizens info is.

Seriously your argument sounds exactly like the hysteria crowd that pushed for an assault weapons ban after Sandy Hook here in this state. "If only there was a total ban in place it couldn't have happened, just wait till it happens to your family" Such BS.

Why stop at collecting license plates. Why not not check points where you scan your ID before you're allowed to pass, that way if something happens in a certain area there will be a record of who entered said sector. Hell why not just require every newborns DNA be saved into the federal database, never know who might grow up to be Timmy the rapist murderer. For the greater good right? Wouldn't want someone to be able to hurt a family member and get away with it. I mean we have the technology and capability, why not use it? And using your argument, the info is useless until something happens, so why not?

Part of living in a free society is you accept certain things, like the fact that sh***y people will be able to do sh***y things at times. Either we live in a free society and accept this fact, or we just get on with a 1984-esque state funded monitoring and live in a liberal dreamland of those who know better watching over us at all times. This might be OK to you, but not me.

ironpony · Oct 5, 2016

So a picture of a tag or the computer deciphered tag number from a picture might be used as evidence ... ? I am going to have a long talk with my license plates!

StantonCree · Oct 5, 2016

Nosce Hostem said:
That's your legitment argument? So keeping someone's info who did nothing wrong in a law enforcement database for any amount of time is not treating that person like a criminal? This is just normal run of the mill good old fashioned policing? No one said checking a license plate against a list is bad, holding citizens info is.

Seriously your argument sounds exactly like the hysteria crowd that pushed for an assault weapons ban after Sandy Hook here in this state. "If only there was a total ban in place it couldn't have happened, just wait till it happens to your family" Such BS.

Why stop at collecting license plates. Why not not check points where you scan your ID before you're allowed to pass, that way if something happens in a certain area there will be a record of who entered said sector. Hell why not just require every newborns DNA be saved into the federal database, never know who might grow up to be Timmy the rapist murderer. For the greater good right? Wouldn't want someone to be able to hurt a family member and get away with it. I mean we have the technology and capability, why not use it? And using your argument, the info is useless until something happens, so why not?

Part of living in a free society is you accept certain things, like the fact that sh***y people will be able to do sh***y things at times. Either we live in a free society and accept this fact, or we just get on with a 1984-esque state funded monitoring and live in a liberal dreamland of those who know better watching over us at all times. This might be OK to you, but not me.

What is being search and seized while on a public road here? Keep in mind your tag is PUBLIC information. Also it's not YOUR info that shows up in the tag read.....or what's kept on file (just a picture of the car and tag). Also keep in mind that car is ON A PUBLIC ROAD.

Gun-Show Customers’ License Plates Come Under Scrutiny

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