Whom made this bullet?

DENWA · Feb 10, 2010

I bought a box of 1000 168gr HPBT bullets at an estate sale.

I never actually looked at them and the box was not marked.

I weighed them and they are 168.2 grains. BUT

They are LONG!

~1.24"

they are longer than Sierra 168 or 175gr Pills.

Who could have made these? Speer? Hornady?

Does anyone have some they could measure?

thanks

guthook · Feb 10, 2010

What is the bullet diameter? Any distunguishing marks like a cannelure? Exposed lead base or copper?

novus collectus · Feb 10, 2010

Not sure, but I would think solid brass bullets with a hollow point would be less dense than lead and would therefore be much longer for the same weight.

guthook · Feb 10, 2010

novus collectus said:
Not sure, but I would think solid brass bullets with a hollow point would be less dense than lead and would therefore be much longer for the same weight.

+1

There are quite a few guilding metal bullets out there now for the ranges that don't allow lead.

Quote from a random site talking about Hornady's GMX bullets. They are 165gr but the point is still valid.

"...Like all such monolithic bullets, they are longer for their caliber and weight than conventional lead core, jacketed bullets and intrude deeper into the cartridge case when seated for the same cartridge overall length...

novus collectus · Feb 10, 2010

guthook said:
+1

There are quite a few guilding metal bullets out there now for the ranges that don't allow lead.

But if he is talking about a boat tail bullet that is a rifle bullet and the only reason to have a hollow point on a rifle bullet is for hunting. If brass his bullets are designed for hunting and not to fit range requirements IMO.
IIRC, all brass hollow point rifle bullets aren't cheap at all. IIRC they are meant for greater penetration without breaking up, but still fold out four cutting petals to expand diameter (not meant to mushroom IIRC).
It is harder to make a solid brass bullet a hollow point IIRC (requires a four bladed punch and re-swaging IIRC).

Sorry about the IIRCs, it has been something like ten years since I read up on solid brass bullets.

DENWA · Feb 11, 2010

Sorry,

they are .308 diameter, with Fully covered Jackets ( even the base) and no cannalure.

But definetly lead core, cut the tip off one.

They are long, the sierra's are 1.19" long where these are 1.24"

They look like bulk pack bullets but can't figure where they came from.

guthook · Feb 11, 2010

novus collectus said:
But if he is talking about a boat tail bullet that is a rifle bullet and the only reason to have a hollow point on a rifle bullet is for hunting. If brass his bullets are designed for hunting and not to fit range requirements IMO.
IIRC, all brass hollow point rifle bullets aren't cheap at all. IIRC they are meant for greater penetration without breaking up, but still fold out four cutting petals to expand diameter (not meant to mushroom IIRC).
It is harder to make a solid brass bullet a hollow point IIRC (requires a four bladed punch and re-swaging IIRC).

Sorry about the IIRCs, it has been something like ten years since I read up on solid brass bullets.

True. My thinking went awry. The ones I've seen are 95-100% copper.

jjbduke2004 · Feb 11, 2010

Sadly, I can't measure the Hornady 168 gr Match HPBTs I loaded for my Garand. All I have is loaded ammo here. The unloaded bullets are at my father's.

Did you weigh multiple bullets? Match bullets tend to be very, very close in weight.

Also GI Match & sniper ammo was 168gr. They could be GI pull down, though I've never seen it available.

novus collectus · Feb 11, 2010

DENWA said:
Sorry,

they are .308 diameter, with Fully covered Jackets ( even the base) and no cannalure.

But definetly lead core, cut the tip off one.

They are long, the sierra's are 1.19" long where these are 1.24"

They look like bulk pack bullets but can't figure where they came from.

They might be partition bullets with the base lead, a brass or copper partition in the middle, then lead in the front. Cut one longitudinally to see if my guess is correct.

novus collectus · Feb 11, 2010

I bet E.Shell knows the right answer to this.

longshot1911 · Feb 11, 2010

I would guess they are Bergers or Lost River bullets. The Berger is by weight the longest bullet I have shot. I have some 90 gr 22 and 168 gr 7mm that look like needles.

Ab_Normal · Feb 11, 2010

novus collectus said:
the only reason to have a hollow point on a rifle bullet is for hunting.

This is not always true. A lot/most target bullets have a hollow point BUT they aren't designed/made to expand like hollow point hunting bullets.

I has going to say Barnes X bullets until I saw the OP cut one in half.

Caeb75 · Feb 11, 2010

I'd put my money on Berger VLD

E.Shell · Feb 11, 2010

longshot1911 said:
I would guess they are Bergers or Lost River bullets. The Berger is by weight the longest bullet I have shot. I have some 90 gr 22 and 168 gr 7mm that look like needles.

Agreed. For a standard jacketed, lead core bullet, it very well could be a Berger, which are very popular. Bergers also have an ogive that differs from most other bullet makers.

Lifted this pic from 24HourCampfire:

Lost River or JLK are a couple other low production very low drag (VLD) style bullets that are encountered with very long ogives.

Ab_Normal said:
This is not always true. A lot/most target bullets have a hollow point BUT they aren't designed/made to expand like hollow point hunting bullets.

Correct. The hollow point in a jacketed match bullet exists due to the mechanical aspects of closing the jacket around the core. The bullet base is far more critical to accuracy than the tip, so they simply close the jacket at the tip, leaving a hollow point. Any inconsistency in jacket length shows as a slight change in the hollow point, which is well tolerated for everything except long range, in which this inconsistent tip is either uniformed via a trimmer or pointed via a special die. Either operation reduces variation at greater distances.

Whom made this bullet?

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