Decision in Kolbe!

occbrian · Feb 4, 2016

I may not be remembering it correctly, but I thought ESQ spoke to this previously. I don't think a district judge would fly in the face of a circuit decision.

I'd guess she invalidates the AWB under SS... Frosh appeals to circuit and the decision is upheld. Frosh then asks for en banc. At that point, it's luck of the draw with Frosh having an advantage given the makeup of the circuit.

Then it's up to one of us to file for cert. If Frosh is filing, he prob gets it because a State law has been found unconstitutional. If we're filing, odds are lower... much lower.

Boxcab · Feb 4, 2016

balttigger said:
SO, by vacating the District Court's decision, it still leaves the law as is - correct?

And now we have to wait for Blake to "re-decide" and figure out how she can word her decision to screw us again and stay true to her liberal task masters so we can go back to Richmond - again - and wait another year for the hearing -again- then wait a year for the decision -again- before it goes.....

See ya back here in 5 years.

Now that the original Judge has direction, I expect her to follow the remand to the letter. She knew that this case was bound for higher courts and simply "mailed in" her original ruling. She may have been doing us a favor by using the wording and justification that she did. I expect she will turn this around as promptly as she can, and wipe her hands of it again... letting the higher courts bare the burden.

.

Gryphon · Feb 4, 2016

hitwtom said:
Is the dissenting Judge (King?) a member on here? From his dissent

Judge King wrote the 4th Circuit's decision in Woollard.

dist1646 · Feb 4, 2016

teratos said:
No. LEO = Citizen = Me.

Absolutely correct! No citizen should have more rights than another!

Inigoes · Feb 4, 2016

Boondock Saint said:
It's very hard for me to take the dissenter's opinion seriously when he leads off with the following:

"Let's be real?" Seriously? Is this a dissent in a federal court case or a conversation taking place with a troubled teen on a street corner?

Judge King is undoubtedly an educated man, but in a best case scenario, he clearly lacks the knowledge to speak intelligently in this particularly matter. This is appalling.

It reads like sarcasm, because he was the judge that drew the short straw to write the dissent

teratos · Feb 4, 2016

Mrhyde said:
Look at that! I'm not TOTALLY brain dead haha. Thanks!

So then that makes me wonder what the GA will do now. I'm sure this will still be dragged out FOR EVER. But it adds an extra level of interest.

And it makes me wonder. Would we rather drag this out under strict scrutiny, knowing that they probably can't make it hold up?

Or do we hope the GA kills it and we get instant gratification?

Both are good outcomes, for different reasons.

Personally, I would rather see this decided under SS. We have precedent that AWB are Unconstitutional. He have precedent that 2A cases need to be heard under SS. CA now can challenge their ridiculous "bullet button" and other feature laws. Magazine limits in other States (NY) can be challenged and overturned.

ComeGet · Feb 4, 2016

Good stuff!

jpk1md · Feb 4, 2016

teratos said:
Where the hell did you come from? Been a while.....

Still around

Keeping tabs on the full retard crap that typically rears its ugly head in Md/Cali etc before they attempt it here in NH

trickg · Feb 4, 2016

teratos said:
You are correct that if they repealed the law the case would end. They could then pass a "lite" version. I'm not sure the courts would appreciate these shenanigans.

This does have far-reaching implications. I'm sure CA if looking at this with interest given their brain-damaged lawmakers.

Ok, so from a long-term strategy perspective, what's the anti-gun establishment's best bet? Do they roll the dice with the courts, and if they lose, they not only lose big in Maryland, but it has the possibility of creating national precedent, or do they actually repeal the law so they can approach it from another angle later?

And which would be better for us? While SS looks great, is there a chance we could eventually still lose in the courts?

Mrhyde · Feb 4, 2016

teratos said:
Personally, I would rather see this decided under SS. We have precedent that AWB are Unconstitutional. He have precedent that 2A cases need to be heard under SS. CA now can challenge their ridiculous "bullet button" and other feature laws. Magazine limits in other States (NY) can be challenged and overturned.

This is how I'm leaning too. Instant gratification would be nice. But I'd much rather prefer they be saddled with greater burdens in the future.

It will take much longer. But in the long run I'd like to avoid this in the future.

Mr H · Feb 4, 2016

teratos said:
Personally, I would rather see this decided under SS. We have precedent that AWB are Unconstitutional. He have precedent that 2A cases need to be heard under SS. CA now can challenge their ridiculous "bullet button" and other feature laws. Magazine limits in other States (NY) can be challenged and overturned.

I'm sure folks in CT are going, "Pleasepleasepleaseplease..."

moojersey · Feb 4, 2016

Schipperke said:
Wonder how Muleskinner will spin this

aquaman said:
He was banned this morning.

Yeah I dunno. I don't think ol' Muleskinner was a bad guy or a troll. He just offered an unpopular opposing view point.

jpk1md · Feb 4, 2016

teratos said:
Personally, I would rather see this decided under SS. We have precedent that AWB are Unconstitutional. He have precedent that 2A cases need to be heard under SS. CA now can challenge their ridiculous "bullet button" and other feature laws. Magazine limits in other States (NY) can be challenged and overturned.

I predict conflicts between circuits in 3,2,1

1st district with Mass AWB
2nd district with NY/CT stupidity......

glock9mm · Feb 4, 2016

This is great news!

fabsroman · Feb 4, 2016

CharlieFoxtrot said:
Good summary. Strict scrutiny has always been the holy grail of 2A litigation. This is wonderful.

I am smiling ear to ear. My wife asked me what the big grin was for, and I explained it to her.

Her response, "So, all the lowers and ARs you bought in 2013 weren't really necessary?"

My response, "Hindsight being 20/20, probably not. However, we still do not know how the US District Court is going to rule on remand and we have no idea if this is going to go all the way to SCOTUS and, if so, how SCOTUS is going to rule."

Her response, "So, does this make any difference on the guns and silencers you are currently buying?"

My response, "Nope. Rule 41P still causes problems there, but that could be overturned if we get a Republican/conservative President. Best way to ensure a Republican/Conservative President is for me to move forward with the SBRs, SBS, and suppressors."

Her face turned serious for a second, and then she said "Alright". I love my wife.

Joshluseal · Feb 4, 2016

This is both exciting and nerve racking! :shocked4:

trickg · Feb 4, 2016

moojersey said:
Yeah I dunno. I don't think ol' Muleskinner was a bad guy or a troll. He just offered an unpopular opposing view point.

I just looked up his posting from this morning to see what he said. While I agree with Norton that for this particular forum he was certainly a wellspring of negativity, I didn't see that he was really that far out there - I thought he had a valid perspective from an opposing viewpoint, albeit a bit pessimistic.

Brooklyn · Feb 4, 2016

teratos said:
No. LEO = Citizen = Me.

To say that an LEO is more likely to use his legal firearm for the purposes of good is disingenuous. Regular citizens use their firearms to thwart crime and protect themselves all the time. Arguably more so than LEO.

Well unless I am mistaken...the court did not go that far.

The hql is mostly about training and identifying the purchaser..

Leo s are printed already and trained..so not equally situated..

Of course there is still an as applied claim ...but given that ccw holders also. Bypass some of the hql nonsense..I can see that the equal protection claim is weak.

moojersey · Feb 4, 2016

Mr H said:
I can't find my contact info, but if anyone can push this up to Ammoland and TTAG, that would be huge!!

Yes we need to make sure we get the good news out :thumbsup:

JoshA said:
So, when can I start buying 30rd mags in state?

I thought the case just dealt with the weapons ban. Does it include magazine limits as well???

toddtrain said:
That is because 2A in MD linked this page on facebook. It should maybe go to WC so not everyone can see the comments.

Why would we hide what we think? This forum is for honest public opinion.

trickg said:
Agreed, not that it's going to matter much in the courts, but it could give the media some bytes here and there that could paint us in an unfavorable light.

Who cares? Are we going to run and hide even when we get a small victory?

Mr H said:
Like they wouldn't anyway...

If folks just keep it to the point (ok, maybe a little comedic--but not awful), there shouldn't be an issue.

Agree why would we hide that we are happy about this win? Folks really never cease to amaze...

fabsroman · Feb 4, 2016

Brooklyn said:
Well unless I am mistaken...the court did not go that far.

The hql is mostly about training and identifying the purchaser..

Leo s are printed already and trained..so not equally situated..

Of course there is still an as applied claim ...but given that ccw holders also. Bypass some of the hql nonsense..I can see that the equal protection claim is weak.

Was the HQL even part of this litigation? I thought the equal protection issue was that LEO could continue to possess an Assault Weapon after they left the department even if the Assault Weapon was not possessed prior to 10/1/2013.

Decision in Kolbe!

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