What is a Mental Illness? Is there common ground?

fivepointstar · Apr 4, 2018

MENTAL ILLNESS?

I've struggling with this for sometime now. When it comes to purchasing firearms, I think both the 77R and the 4473 outlines who can purchase a firearm from a FFL. All MSP or ATF has to do is deny the purchase. So how do we define mental illness when it comes to keeping your firearms. Gun Seizures is a the big topic now. how do we find common ground?

Domestic Civil Orders?
Court Orders signed by a judge
Voluntary Orders (that can't be enforced if the owner refuses)
Police Seizures

how do you determine mental illness and how do you provide this person Due Process? I've just been struggling with the concept.

Individual Rights vs Public Safety

I don't have any answers and I'm hoping my favorite forum can help me figure this out or point me in the right direction.

ps...if this post is confusing, I apologize. this is how difficult it is. where do I start?

LCPIWB · Apr 4, 2018

Yes.. Confusing post.. Are you trying to say you are struggling with mental illness?

LCPIWB · Apr 4, 2018

77R and 4473 are pretty clear on the subject... Involuntary committals of more than 30 days, right on the forms themselves.
In addition to your "voluntary" gun registration you are required to fill out a release to the MSP to allow to request all health and mental records on you.

fivepointstar · Apr 4, 2018

LCPIWB said:
Yes.. Confusing post.. Are you trying to say you are struggling with mental illness?

yes....i've fooled everybody :innocent0

Topher · Apr 4, 2018

There are a lot of people with mental illness that have no desire to hurt themselves or others. So to further complicate the matter how do we determine the intent of someone with a mental illness.

I do know this.
Our jails are full of mentally ill individual and the common thread that unites over 95% of the sociopaths in those jails is... at some point in their early childhood development they experienced trauma (neglect, extreme medical issues, abuse, psychological or emotional extreme abuse and neglect).
It is the results of these actions that causes the brain to not be able to build the necessary pathways to feel empathy... at all. Evil was just created.
This cannot be fixed.

So... How do we fix the un-fixable?

tomrkba · Apr 4, 2018

Mental illness means whatever the government decides it is. They already tipped their hand by deomonstrating this is a confiscation move: they denied veterans with even mild PTSD at NICS.

Boom Boom · Apr 4, 2018

Mental illness encompasses an entire spectrum of disorders. What matters are specific type(s) and degree(s) of impairment, hence the necessity for a court order backed up by sound medical diagnosis (preferably diagnoses). The adjudication process for determining prohibition needs to be a sizable obstacle and not a slippery slope.

KJackson · Apr 4, 2018

My wife is prohibited because she was committed for what was classified as a metal illness. Her illness? Anorexia and Bulimia. I have never heard of anyone with an eating disorder being a threat to anyone else, but that is the way that it is classified.

Jim12 · Apr 4, 2018

Some politicians believe that anyone who wants to even own or shoot a gun is mentally ill. That's how they've been indoctrinated. "Useful idiots."

If they had their way, that would be a tidy way for them to effectively eliminate the 2A, wouldn't it?

Boom Boom · Apr 4, 2018

KJackson said:
My wife is prohibited because she was committed for what was classified as a metal illness. Her illness? Anorexia and Bulimia. I have never heard of anyone with an eating disorder being a threat to anyone else, but that is the way that it is classified.

Eating disorders are directly associated with a very high rate of successful suicide (beyond the eating disorder itself). It's likely the suicide risk was the reason for the prohibition ruling.

Boom Boom · Apr 4, 2018

Jim12 said:
If they had their way, that would be a tidy way for them to effectively eliminate the 2A, wouldn't it?

If many of them had their way, they would mass murder gun owners and anybody else they consider a political adversary. It's openly advocated for on camera in recent protests and riots. It's not new. Ayers and WUO made it a key goal circa 1970.

Atlasarmory · Apr 5, 2018

Simple
Mental illness = Liberal

JPG · Apr 5, 2018

Eventually it will be if you own a gun you are "mentally ill"

Jim12 · Apr 5, 2018

Boom Boom said:
If many of them had their way, they would mass murder gun owners and anybody else they consider a political adversary. It's openly advocated for on camera in recent protests and riots. It's not new. Ayers and WUO made it a key goal circa 1970.

Face it, dude, the Founding Fathers were a bunch of dangerous, conspiratorial, mentally ill ne'er-do-wells. Who in their right mind would rebel against the safety, security, and social structure offered by the benevolent King, in exchange for individual freedom and self-reliance?

They were a bunch of dangerous nuts who should have had their guns taken away before the Revolution. Look at all the gun violence they caused.

Biggfoot44 · Apr 5, 2018

The Federal definition (4477) is different from the Maryland definition ( 77R) .

Docster · Apr 5, 2018

tomrkba said:
Mental illness means whatever the government decides it is. They already tipped their hand by deomonstrating this is a confiscation move: they denied veterans with even mild PTSD at NICS.

Worse, they're going after even minor depression, i.e. those on Prozac and similar. My days going to the VA are coming to an end.....

jrumann59 · Apr 5, 2018

Depending on what shrink you talk to I am willing to bet even the most conservative shrink thinks at least 50% of society has some sort of mental illness such as OCD to full on Paranoid Schizophrenia, and more liberal shrinks will probably say 75% of society has some sort of mental illness.

Think about seasonal Depression when most people go to work when its dark and come home when its dark in the winter and maybe gets to see the sun and sky for 1 hour a day. OCD and varying degrees and other neurosis like it. The ever changing autism scale, the over diagnosis of ADHD, etc. If the shrinks had their way we all would be wearing color coded badges on our lapels so that it would be easier to see who is "crazy" and to what degree.

smokey · Apr 5, 2018

I think we all know the standard the left wants used to strip someone of their rights for a perceived futurecrime...

alucard0822 · Apr 5, 2018

The way I see it, a couple gallons of gas, knives, bows, cars, and pointy sticks are more than capable of being used to kill, even firearms are easy to steal, smuggle, or buy unlawfully. If a person is deemed too dangerous to own a gun, then they are too dangerous to be free in society, and entitled to a fair and just trial, due process, and the ability to completely restore the legality of their rights down the road if the courts determine they are no longer a threat or have repaid their debt to society. There has been practically no reduction in crime as a direct result of gun control, practically no innocent lives spared. The law ultimately is just a piece of paper, and those that are too evil or crazy to follow it by definition will break the law, and get weapons anyway, then break the law again and use them. I would rather have EVERYONE in society armed than try to disarm those that care about the law, pretty much the only way to ensure every criminal or mass shooter will face superior firepower in the hands of everyone else,. All gun control does it remove the ability for citizens to lawfully defend themselves from criminals and crazies, both on the street and in government, which is really the only reason gun control is enacted in the first place, and tells much about the intentions of those that push it.

tomrkba · Apr 5, 2018

...the right of the people except those with mental illness to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.

What is a Mental Illness? Is there common ground?

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