Distinguishing what is an HBAR

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  • danb

    dont be a dumbass
    Feb 24, 2013
    22,704
    google is your friend, I am not.
    I am thinking long term. Eventually we they get old enough I would like to give them some of my firearms possibly. I am sur those websites will not be around or these barrels will not be for sale any longer. It is easy enough to put a print out in the file cabinet but sometimes old files get cleaned out and stuff gets lost. If the barrel is marked that work should never get lost.
    I was just wondering if there was an acceptable standard for the marking. Stamping vs laser engraved.

    the barrel manufacturer needs to stamp or engrave it, or marketed as an Hbar. not you. So if it's that important to you make sure you save the paperwork. If anyone could stamp it then anyone could turn a government profile Barrel into an h-bar through the magic of laser engraving, which is obviously not the case
     

    kalister1

    R.I.P.
    May 16, 2008
    4,814
    Pasadena Maryland
    What makes this really ridicules is that if you own AR lowers purchased before the magic date, you can have any barrel (>16") you want on it. So if you have older and newer Lowers you have to decide which Upper can be pinned to which Lower.
    It has already been said: Once the Police are trying to date your lower to see if you have to have an H-Bar on it, you are already in need of an attorney.
     

    daggo66

    Ultimate Member
    Mar 31, 2013
    1,992
    Glen Burnie
    What makes this really ridicules is that if you own AR lowers purchased before the magic date, you can have any barrel (>16") you want on it. So if you have older and newer Lowers you have to decide which Upper can be pinned to which Lower.
    It has already been said: Once the Police are trying to date your lower to see if you have to have an H-Bar on it, you are already in need of an attorney.

    Police will never attempt to "date your lower".
     

    lazarus

    Ultimate Member
    Jun 23, 2015
    13,658
    Does it make any difference in how the barrel is marked? Does it have to be stamped or will having it makes by a laser ingraver be acceptable?
    I am looking at having a barrel that is advertised as a h-bar but is not marked as h-bar marked so that I don't have to keep a copy of the advertisement in my range bag for the off chance someone ever questioned it

    You don’t need to be that paranoid about it. How is someone going to know your rifle doesn’t predate the 2013 law without looking up the serial number. Just keep a copy in your records at home. I don’t see the cops being huge D-bags about it. If they are, a stamped barrel or copy of the receipt or webpage isn’t going to do anything for you until they’ve already arrested and the charging official has a chance to look at the charge and pull their head out of their their butt. Because if they are going there, it means the officer doesn’t know the law to start with and knows little to nothing about firearms.

    The only instances I know of anyone being charged under the law for a non-complaint AR-15 it was things like kids (young adults) who are obviously too young to have purchased one pre-2013 bringing a pencil barrel ar-15 in to the state from another state. Even there it is more likely they are getting arrested for something else and the illegal assault weapon charge gets tacked on.

    I am generally pretty cautious with firearm laws to be very sure I am way within the letter. On this one, I just keep the receipts if it states HBAR/Heavy Barrel or print the webpage and keep it in my records.

    I know of no one convicted for having a heavy barreled AR that wasn’t advertised or marked (there are a few that are obviously heavy profile that aren’t.) and I’d steer clear of those. Otherwise, GTG.
     

    daggo66

    Ultimate Member
    Mar 31, 2013
    1,992
    Glen Burnie
    The only time anyone cares is when a transfer is involved. Stop the paranoia! I have been through this and know for a fact what happens.
     

    John from MD

    American Patriot
    MDS Supporter
    May 12, 2005
    22,642
    Socialist State of Maryland
    Many of us have firearms with no records whatsoever. Prior to '68, you could buy guns from magazines and they came to your house. No one ever bothered to keep any papers if there were any.

    Many firearms are sold face to face with no paperwork - legally.

    The liberals would love for paranoid gun owners to give them up because they are afraid that the police will come to their gun range an arrest them. It's not happening folks. ;)
     

    outrider58

    Eats Bacon Raw
    MDS Supporter
    Jul 29, 2014
    49,709
    Many of us have firearms with no records whatsoever. Prior to '68, you could buy guns from magazines and they came to your house. No one ever bothered to keep any papers if there were any.

    Many firearms are sold face to face with no paperwork - legally.

    The liberals would love for paranoid gun owners to give them up because they are afraid that the police will come to their gun range an arrest them. It's not happening folks. ;)

    +1
     

    FGT1958

    Active Member
    Many of us have firearms with no records whatsoever. Prior to '68, you could buy guns from magazines and they came to your house. No one ever bothered to keep any papers if there were any.

    Many firearms are sold face to face with no paperwork - legally.

    The liberals would love for paranoid gun owners to give them up because they are afraid that the police will come to their gun range an arrest them. It's not happening folks. ;)

    +2
     

    trickg

    Guns 'n Drums
    MDS Supporter
    Jul 22, 2008
    14,548
    Glen Burnie
    He means KBAR I think.

    Now that’s a knife.
    04429bce49fa57a2ff69e23963a75c29--best-movie-quotes-film-quotes.jpg
     

    dblas

    Past President, MSI
    MDS Supporter
    Apr 6, 2011
    13,060
    The barrel will need to be stamped HBAR or heavy contour.

    There is no requirement either in MD law, or by MSP determination, that the barrel be stamped HBAR or heavy contour.

    Also from my understanding the manufacturers specs/site must say HBAR/Heavy Barrel despite it obviously being a heavy barrel or not. Best to screen shot and print such just in case for your records..
    I remember an AR I was interested in was obviously a heavy barrel but no where indicated it was, making the sale here beyond a grey area and not technically legal. Best option would be to consult with your preferred FFL and run it by them to see if it meets the state requirements

    MSP has indicated that the rifle either needs to be advertised as heavy barrel/HBAR/heavy contour, or have the same on the box, or have the same on the instructions.
     

    dblas

    Past President, MSI
    MDS Supporter
    Apr 6, 2011
    13,060
    Dumbest and most vague law ever. "Heavy barrels are less lethal." ROFL no. Just another law written by someone that doesn't have any experience in firearms.

    For clarification, that was not the reason for the HBAR exemption. The HBAR exemption has been in place since 1989 (the first list of regulated rifles), and came about because the Colt Sporter HBAR was the only commercially available heavy barrel rifle available at the time for national match competition. You can thank the MSPRA and it's predecessor organization for that exemption.

    The exemption extended to other manufacturers in 1996, when the patent expired for COLT, and other manufacturers started building and selling AR-15s. The first manufacture to be verified for the exemption by MSP, was Bushmaster and their HBAR.
     

    dblas

    Past President, MSI
    MDS Supporter
    Apr 6, 2011
    13,060
    You are giving them WAY too much credit. They passed the old federal assault weapons ban and the HBAR exception is because some Marylanders lobbied them hard to give an exemption for the Colt HBAR because it is used in shooting competitions (that was the reason anyway). Any copies are legit, therefore a copy of a Colt HBAR is Maryland legal.

    What distinguish a Colt HBAR from a regular AR-15? It has a barrel marked HBAR and it is a heavy barrel. So to be a copy of the Colt HBAR, your AR-15 must have it's barrel marked HBAR or be advertised as having a heavy barrel (to distinguish it from all of the other AR-15s out there, which are the devils smoke pole).

    Yeah, it leads to confusion and is stupid. I'll take a loop hole where I can get it rather than them having been smart about it. Trust me, if they had been smart, NO AR-15 or copy of any kind would be legal. No AR-9s, no AR-10s, etc. That was their intention, they just weren't educated/smart enough to manage that.

    I am sure they'll try to rectify that oversight as soon as they can screw us gun owners in the ear.

    The exemption was before the federal ban, Maryland created the regulated rifles list in 1989, which had the AR-15 on it (and the HBAR exemption), and added to it in 1996.
     

    dblas

    Past President, MSI
    MDS Supporter
    Apr 6, 2011
    13,060
    the barrel manufacturer needs to stamp or engrave it, or marketed as an Hbar. not you. So if it's that important to you make sure you save the paperwork. If anyone could stamp it then anyone could turn a government profile Barrel into an h-bar through the magic of laser engraving, which is obviously not the case

    There is NO requirement that the barrel be marked. If it is, so marked, there is NO requirement that it be done by the barrel manufacturer.
     

    Docster

    Ultimate Member
    Jul 19, 2010
    9,768
    I’m lookin at barrels and have noticed the majority don’t actually just say hbar on them. Is there something I can look for on them to see if they are an hbar. Is there a certain weight on each? Like I was looking at spikes tactical and when I typed hbar in they only had a 20” barrel


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

    This may help or confuse. "Search" is your friend

    https://www.mdshooters.com/search.php?searchid=28453665
     

    kalister1

    R.I.P.
    May 16, 2008
    4,814
    Pasadena Maryland
    The only time anyone cares is when a transfer is involved. Stop the paranoia! I have been through this and know for a fact what happens.

    You can transfer H-Bar AR's without any paperwork at all. Face to Face, Citizen to Citizen all day long. You buy barrels through the mail.
    I said the law is ridicules for a reason, nobody goes around checking AR lowers to determine what barrel can or cannot be attached.
     

    daggo66

    Ultimate Member
    Mar 31, 2013
    1,992
    Glen Burnie
    You can transfer H-Bar AR's without any paperwork at all. Face to Face, Citizen to Citizen all day long. You buy barrels through the mail.
    I said the law is ridicules for a reason, nobody goes around checking AR lowers to determine what barrel can or cannot be attached.

    Correct. If you read my previous post regarding a prohibited person, you would understand why I stated they only care during the transfer. I obviously was not referring to FTF.
     

    Pinecone

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Feb 4, 2013
    28,175
    Dumbest and most vague law ever. "Heavy barrels are less lethal." ROFL no. Just another law written by someone that doesn't have any experience in firearms.

    It seems you do not know the history of why it was written that way.

    It goes back to the first bad gun list in the late 80s, the became Federal Law with the Clinton Crime bill in 1994.

    The list was made by Congressional staffers looking through a Gun Digest and picking the "scary looking guns."

    But as an appeasement, they made big speeches about how they were not going after sportsmen, such as hunters and target shooters. Except the AR15 had become the rifle of choice for High Power Competition, so they exempted the target version.

    At the time, the only from the factory target AR was the Colt HBAR Sporter Match. So it is exempted by name.

    Later the term Copy or Imitation was added to the law, so a copy or imitation of a Colt HBAR Sporter is exempted also.

    Come 2013, MD uses the same list as the Federal ban, including some firearms that were never made in any quantity or never sold to the public. They are still on the list.

    So, people started asking MSP what makes an HBAR. So they said stamped or advertised as HBAR or Heavy Barrel was good to go.

    But if you want stupid, is that MSP says Bushmaster ARs are banned by name. Except the current Bushmaster company did not exist when the list was made, and the Bushmaster on the list is a bullpup, that wasn't ever really available.
     

    Pinecone

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Feb 4, 2013
    28,175
    You are giving them WAY too much credit. They passed the old federal assault weapons ban and the HBAR exception is because some Marylanders lobbied them hard to give an exemption for the Colt HBAR because it is used in shooting competitions (that was the reason anyway). Any copies are legit, therefore a copy of a Colt HBAR is Maryland legal.

    What distinguish a Colt HBAR from a regular AR-15? It has a barrel marked HBAR and it is a heavy barrel. So to be a copy of the Colt HBAR, your AR-15 must have it's barrel marked HBAR or be advertised as having a heavy barrel (to distinguish it from all of the other AR-15s out there, which are the devils smoke pole).

    Yeah, it leads to confusion and is stupid. I'll take a loop hole where I can get it rather than them having been smart about it. Trust me, if they had been smart, NO AR-15 or copy of any kind would be legal. No AR-9s, no AR-10s, etc. That was their intention, they just weren't educated/smart enough to manage that.

    I am sure they'll try to rectify that oversight as soon as they can screw us gun owners in the ear.

    The original Federal list exempted the Colt HBAR Match Sporter. That was not added to the MD list.

    At the time, it was the only "target" AR available as a factory rifle.
     

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