House Gun Bill Day Prep thread 3/10/15

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  • dblas

    Past President, MSI
    MDS Supporter
    Apr 6, 2011
    13,060
    OK have it your way. But now the law backs them..

    It gives them PC. This bill is worded so as to guarantee an arrest.

    An no you only have the burden of proof after they have PC.

    Now they do by law. No risk of civil liability for the officer either.

    And we gain nothing.

    You're wrong, it gives no one, no more PC than they already have if they see a firearm in a vehicle. Stop looking for boogie men where there are none.
     

    dblas

    Past President, MSI
    MDS Supporter
    Apr 6, 2011
    13,060
    I'm not arguing with you. I just want an explanation of what this bill changes.

    The bill clears up the ambiguity of whether or not non residents of MD can travel THROUGH MD with firearms that are now banned/regulated without issue.
     

    Brooklyn

    I stand with John Locke.
    Jan 20, 2013
    13,095
    Plan D? Not worth the hassle.
    You're wrong, it gives no one, no more PC than they already have if they see a firearm in a vehicle. Stop looking for boogie men where there are none.

    Not my call..
    But I disagree.

    FOPA does not apply only to residents of other states.

    They need PC to believe you are not traveling interstate. even NJ had to back off on this..
     

    Brooklyn

    I stand with John Locke.
    Jan 20, 2013
    13,095
    Plan D? Not worth the hassle.
    FOPA does not cover you in the starting state or the ending state anyway, so while traveling in MD, as a MD resident, you have to abide by state law. Once you leave MD FOPA applies to any state you travel through. Once you get to your destination state, that state's laws apply to you, not FOPA.

    For posession yes. For transport no. There is no way for an MD President to transport out of state. Interstate means interstate. It does not mean that you can be exempt from state law..but it does mean that while in transit. This is being tested right now.. the definition of starting and ending state are vague... but not infinitly so.

    There is currently no lawful way to transport out of state generally other than FOpA to nullify fopa for transport is dangerous and foolish.

    While it does not mean I can posses a gun unlawfully in my home state, nor can I transport such a weapon as I am still subject to the posdesion laws of my home state.

    But I can transport any such under fopa as part of a journey that is legitimate interstate transport.

    Lucky for us I can transport under Md law to an out of state range and from there proceed under FOPA. But the intent of congress was to enable interstate, but not intrastate transport.
    An MD resident is protected by FOpa for transport purposes for the entire journey... Protection does end when the trip stops ( problematic but I dare say if the vehicle is subject to the moving violation laws I would claim its still transit.) And it does not start until in transit..

    But it does not wait till the boarder to start..

    Otherwise the entire law can an will be nullified a simple act of the state legislature.

    And the text I just read just restates FOPA. Nearly verbetuim ..it dies not even clarify the main questions during the FSA debate..

    Can a non resident possesses a non registered FA not banned while in MD atending a class or competition... for example.

    While FOPA is a mess the one thing that the courts are Clear on is traveling trough without stops..

    Thank god TX and some of the larger state are gun friendly or we would need to carry extra fuel tanks.


    Fopa does not let you evade the sale and posession laws of your home state..but it does let you transport out of that state and even back again.. but...it would not allow you to just pop over the border on your way to work and call it interstate travel.


    If the state has PC to think that's what you did..then fine. But without PC residents and non residents enjoy the same protection over interstate transportation .

    I am sure this is being litigated..

    Replace' non residents ' with 'persons engaded in legitimate interstate transport ' and the issue goes away entirely.

    Its just FOPA. Now as far as class and competition.. that's where they need our help..

    Of course I can not get folks to even consider such a thing... they dont trust MD.. ;)
     

    swinokur

    In a State of Bliss
    Patriot Picket
    Apr 15, 2009
    55,376
    Westminster USA
    The title of FOPA is Interstate transport. If I can prove I'm traveling interstate, then why couldn't I use this as a defense? Nothing in FOPA says it cannot be used if I am indeed traveling interstate.

    Especially since MD makes no exemption under 4-203 for travel. So how do I legally transport the weapon to another state without breaking the MD statute?

    My only defense would be FOPA.

    The AG opinion on FOPA says it doesn't apply if the origin and derstination are BOTH in MD. I take that to mean it would apply if either the origin or destination was NOT in MD.

    But IANAL.
     

    Attachments

    • MD AG opinion on travel 4-203.pdf
      15.4 KB · Views: 104

    Brooklyn

    I stand with John Locke.
    Jan 20, 2013
    13,095
    Plan D? Not worth the hassle.
    The problem is two fold.

    1. Burden of proof is reversed.
    2. Under that restrictive reading you can leave but never come back. Most likely they are trying to say intrastate. And failing as lawyers often do.

    Until they define trip..its not possible to know if its safe to return home.. now Md has enough carve outs to make this largely a non issue..but in NY and NJ not so much..

    By degrees the noose tightens.

    Now if an over night stay ends a trip then you can return the next day. But that means you may need to risk your life rather than stop in MD NJ etc.

    And if a fuel stop ends a trip..its better and also worse.

    But its a federal law so it must have one nation wide interpretation..


    And right now there is no interpretation that can't nullify it at will.


    And while we try and fix that I don't want it getting any weaker.

    Legitimate interstate transportation.. crossing a state boarder as a planned necessary part of the trip.
     

    dblas

    Past President, MSI
    MDS Supporter
    Apr 6, 2011
    13,060
    I don't quite get it either. Thanks for reminding me, though... MSI is opposing this, and I need to change the tag on that one.

    There will likely be some additional updates to where all of the organizations stand on these bills as we have a confab to hash that out today.
     

    Mr H

    Banana'd
    From NRA-ILA...

    Members are strongly encouraged to attend these hearings and testify in support of the above described bills as well as oppose any anti-gun bills. If you are unable to attend but would still like to submit testimony, please keep it to a page in length and email it to marylandtestimony@nrahq.org and your NRA-ILA will compile and deliver it to the committees. Testimony should be submitted no later than midnight on March 8.
     

    DC-W

    Ultimate Member
    Patriot Picket
    Jan 23, 2013
    25,290
    ️‍

    dogbone

    Ultimate Member
    Nov 14, 2011
    2,981
    GTT - Gone To Texas
    HB0614 -- Mild ANTI (MSI OPPOSES)
    Quote:
    Altering the definition of handgun for purposes of provisions relating to the Handgun Roster Board to exclude a shotgun, a rifle, a short-barreled rifle, a short-barreled shotgun, or an antique firearm from the definition.
    Redefining the term "handgun" to exclude rifle, shotgun, SBR, SBS or antiques; focuses on "concealable"

    Sorry but stupid question. Whats the end game with this?

    I don't quite get it either. Thanks for reminding me, though... MSI is opposing this, and I need to change the tag on that one.

    I've been muddling over this Dumbass bill and I think I finally figured out her "end game."

    If a SBR or SBS is defined as a handgun under MD law due to its barrel length and every new handgun sold in MD has to be on the Handgun Roster, then this may be a move to put a serious crimp in the supply of SBRs. It's the only reasoning I could come up with which fits a sneaky anti mindset and I could well be wrong but Dumbass isn't looking to do us any favors.
     

    Bradw410

    Banned
    BANNED!!!
    Jul 11, 2012
    1,597
    Easton
    Isn't MD a lost cause to you?

    If you decide otherwise, read up on all of the gun bills here.
    http://mgaleg.maryland.gov/webmga/f...bjpage&tab=subject3&id=guns&stab=01&ys=2015RS

    While not exactly a direct repeal of the law, this bill essentially would do just that.
    From Del. Grammer:
    http://mgaleg.maryland.gov/webmga/frmMain.aspx?pid=billpage&tab=subject3&id=hb0306&stab=01&ys=2015RS

    I don't think I've said its a lost cause,not saying I have much faith. But I'm not moving this is my home
     

    dblas

    Past President, MSI
    MDS Supporter
    Apr 6, 2011
    13,060
    I've been muddling over this Dumbass bill and I think I finally figured out her "end game."

    If a SBR or SBS is defined as a handgun under MD law due to its barrel length and every new handgun sold in MD has to be on the Handgun Roster, then this may be a move to put a serious crimp in the supply of SBRs. It's the only reasoning I could come up with which fits a sneaky anti mindset and I could well be wrong but Dumbass isn't looking to do us any favors.

    If they are removed from the handgun roster board, they go right back to being rifles and are automatically banned as AR variant and AK variants based on the banned list. That simple.
     

    teratos

    My hair is amazing
    MDS Supporter
    Patriot Picket
    Jan 22, 2009
    59,751
    Bel Air
    If they are removed from the handgun roster board, they go right back to being rifles and are automatically banned as AR variant and AK variants based on the banned list. That simple.

    I'd rather see them stay "handguns". Then we can argue they can be < 29".
     

    dogbone

    Ultimate Member
    Nov 14, 2011
    2,981
    GTT - Gone To Texas
    If they are removed from the handgun roster board, they go right back to being rifles and are automatically banned as AR variant and AK variants based on the banned list. That simple.

    We need a big push back against this one if there is any chance of it growing enough legs to make its way over to the Senate. All we need is for the opposition to get rolling on the "loophole" and how evil SBRs are. Are there enough stamp collectors out there to show up and testify Tuesday?
     

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