Montoya Hearing Deliberation Audio-Shocking!

fightinbluhen51 · Oct 4, 2016

It might not be the "proper forum for him to make change," but in order to make that change we have to prove that the system is convoluted and corrupt. Listening to these people speak about the hoops they go through to seek "permission" for a natural, fundamental right, they shouldn't be allowed to have their "NRA Instructor" hats.

Disgusting.

Fox123 · Oct 4, 2016

Well I know two businesses that I will not be a patron of....

montoya32 · Oct 4, 2016

zoostation said:
Well for my small part you just named two businesses that will never see a dime of my money.

vetogunban · Oct 4, 2016

Interesting logo for B&S, from their website.

Stoveman · Oct 4, 2016

Jaybeez said:
So now that this audio is out, maybe people will better understand that little riff with AGC over their associates on the board...

So it begs the question, since John Josselyn recommended at least one of these "esteemed" members, are his views in line with hers and if so how soon will the public apology email be sent, followed by his resignation?

Stoveman · Oct 4, 2016

vetogunban said:
View attachment 187647

Interesting logo for BS from their website.

FIFY

vetogunban · Oct 4, 2016

Stoveman said:
FIFY

Agree 100%!

Gryphon · Oct 4, 2016

Tim - thank you for shedding further sunlight on the process, and exposing just how little certain members on the Board understand their role. Obviously it's not pretty, but exposing the problem is an important step in getting it corrected. I do think improvements have occurred with Chairman Wilsons guidance over the last several months, but he has been begging for much needed support and he certainly isn't getting it. I will be at tonight's meeting and hope that after the administrative debacle last month we will see major improvement, and maybe even see the initial appearance of the elusive 5th member.

woodstock · Oct 4, 2016

patty?

Blaster229 · Oct 4, 2016

montoya32 said:
Also, I like how Mrs White cites the 95% approval rate.

Because you know. They ask all the students first their reason. Don't want them to waste their time or money taking the class. LOL Heard it with my own ears.

montoya32 · Oct 4, 2016

Blaster229 said:
Because you know. They ask all the students first their reason. Don't want them to waste their time or money taking the class. LOL Heard it with my own ears.

How nice. Doesn't that make it sound like she is hinting that her students have a better chance of getting their permit? Wouldn't it seem that if she cites teaching the applicant the W&C course, and recuses herself, the other board members would be more inclined to side with the applicant since she "vetted" them and decided they had a G&S?

Blaster229 · Oct 4, 2016

montoya32 said:
How nice. Doesn't that make it sound like she is hinting that her students have a better chance of getting their permit? Wouldn't it seem that if she cites teaching the applicant the W&C course, and recuses herself, the other board members would be more inclined to side with the applicant since she "vetted" them and decided they had a G&S?

Well, here's the thing that gets me. They probably put all this stock in her opinions simply because of the business. Like that is the qualifier of all things wear and carry permit. Out of 10 minutes of audio, 8 minutes was just her talking.

montoya32 · Oct 4, 2016

Blaster229 said:
Well, here's the thing that gets me. They probably put all this stock in her opinions simply because of the business. Like that is the qualifier of all things wear and carry permit. Out of 10 minutes of audio, 8 minutes was just her talking.

LOL. She wasn't talking, she recused herself. LOL

Must have been static or something you heard.

redeemed.man · Oct 4, 2016

This recording is outrageous and should anger anyone who is a 2A supporter in Maryland. White clearly didn't recuse herself and Neverdon appears to have unlawfully participated in the deliberations as an unappointed board member. Other board members including the chairman didn't handle this well at all. The comments about you should just be happy with what you got were pretty despicable.

ironpony · Oct 4, 2016

Is the NRA familiar with this? It is one of their instructors correct?

Hattie · Oct 4, 2016

Though brief, this audio is of incredible value to future HPRB appellants. As others have observed, at least certain HPRB members still do not understand the Board's role, or its authority. In particular, there seems to be no comprehension that the statute never requires any permit to be restricted. The abusive misuse of vague and inconsistent restrictive language is something invented and pursued by MSP. The Board owes no deference to MSP, but still seems to take it as a given that essentially no one gets an unrestricted permit.

Perhaps the most damning statement made during the closed session was to the effect that, as to applicants on self defense grounds, "of course they're going to be denied."

Almost equally appalling was the bald statement that the former head of the MSP licensing division was "wrong" about permit approval rates, an assertion based on one then-member's personal experience in her own training business.

We can only hope that future applicants and their counsel will be explicit in reminding the Board that it is independent of MSP and should faithfully apply its independent judgment rather than feeling constrained by MSP's longstanding, willful and politically driven misapplication of the permit statute.

tom b · Oct 4, 2016

Tim - What a ridiculous way for the board & the state of Md to conduct themselves. If you're taking this to the court system please let me know where to send my donation for legal & court fees. I am more than willing to help with the burden.

As for the 2 board members (1 former?) that work in the training business, hopefully the word gets around and they're boycotted by all.

5.56blaster · Oct 4, 2016

Wouldn't it be nice if all us gun owners could leave this wonderful state. I truly hate Maryland and everyday that I am stuck here. Keep up the good fight!

POP57 · Oct 4, 2016

I've been enlightened. Thanks for sharing the audio.

Schipperke · Oct 4, 2016

montoya32 said:
LOL. She wasn't talking, she recused herself. LOL

Must have been static or something you heard.

Could probably be ground for a De Novo Hearing, if you wish to stomach it. I was there, and she went right on the record recusing herself. That was way over the line injecting herself in deliberation, after the declaration.

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